Why the future doesnt need us

RonLugge

Join Date 05/2004

+50

show me this BS

Yeah, I'm in agreement with that. The closest I've ever heard of that is that extremely powerful magnetic fields can be used to levitate frogs, and presumably you could use them to create a "gravity" field... but they don't work on humans because of certain nasty side-effects. (Which for the life of me, I can't remember)

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essentially, it has to do with chemical potentials with calcium and potassium and other ion complexes. but it doesnt actually store any complex data (beyond a "slipping" one).

What about neurochemicals?

if you think lasers, guns and robots are all there is to technology, I've really got to stop even considernig your posts.

He was speaking in the terms of more millitary research which this country does lack, I mean even in aviation Russians had the lead and we worked with a lot less money.

Yeah, I'm in agreement with that. The closest I've ever heard of that is that extremely powerful magnetic fields can be used to levitate frogs, and presumably you could use them to create a "gravity" field... but they don't work on humans because of certain nasty side-effects. (Which for the life of me, I can't remember)

Well if the generated feild isnt large enough to lift your entire body then it could try to rip you in two...

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I think it had something to do with iron in your blood and something about electrics in your brain....

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Yeah, I'm in agreement with that. The closest I've ever heard of that is that extremely powerful magnetic fields can be used to levitate frogs, and presumably you could use them to create a "gravity" field... but they don't work on humans because of certain nasty side-effects. (Which for the life of me, I can't remember)

Well if the generated feild isnt large enough to lift your entire body then it could try to rip you in two...

no no no, thats just the magnetic pull of iron in your bloodstream, site sqrls.
and its not nearly enough to pull you apart

What about neurochemicals?

neurochemicals are just carbon compounds that either inhibit or accelerate axon transition and/or raise/lower the electromagnetic requirement in neurons

He was speaking in the terms of more millitary research which this country does lack, I mean even in aviation Russians had the lead and we worked with a lot less money.

where do you get that funky idea? even the most recent (or pending rather) russian aircraft is 20 years behind american tech. and their intercontiental rustbuckets? dont get me started.

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RonLugge

Join Date 05/2004

+50

even the most recent (or pending rather) russian aircraft is 20 years behind american tech.

Don't denigrate Russian tech too much. They have the ability to take off from a dirty runway, whereas any of our jets that tried that would take FOD.

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neurochemicals are just carbon compounds that either inhibit or accelerate axon transition and/or raise/lower the electromagnetic requirement in neurons

They do more then that, at least in my opinion. We havent even discovered all the different kinds and many of them are linked to emotional responses. There a little more to the way our brain codes things.

where do you get that funky idea? even the most recent (or pending rather) russian aircraft is 20 years behind american tech. and their intercontiental rustbuckets? dont get me started.

Really now? How much of that did you guys steal when we we fell apart?

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RonLugge

Join Date 05/2004

+50

Really now? How much of that did you guys steal when we we fell apart?

Actually, its in the nature of different designs -- your jet engines were designed with special filters and the like to help prevent FOD, because you just can't keep your runways clean

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because you just can't keep your runways clean

What part of we have no money didnt you understand?

A lot of our research at the end of the Soviet Union and afterwards for at least 5 years was done with the hope that we were improving our nation and helping our people. Such dedication is not seen in much of the Western world, and definetly not in the US. Here its whatever makes the largest profits, not what actually benifits the peopl.

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RonLugge

Join Date 05/2004

+50

helping our people.

I understand that that was Stalin's goal, too

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Here its whatever makes the largest profits, not what actually benifits the peopl.

uhm, the people arent going to buy the crap if it doesnt benefit them, thats why northrop and others compete for the design rights, so see who is the best. capitalism=competition=gg against socialism

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I understand that that was Stalin's goal, too

Lenin's actually, Stalin was a misguided follower.

uhm, the people arent going to buy the crap if it doesnt benefit them, thats why northrop and others compete for the design rights, so see who is the best. capitalism=competition=gg against socialism

Yes, but capatalism also starting to defeat innovation. Why cure AIDS when you can earn so much money making pills for eractile disfunction. Hm?

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They have the ability to take off from a dirty runway, whereas any of our jets that tried that would take FOD.

yes, well we really dont have need for that as our planes can make the trip from our lands to theirs and back.

They do more then that, at least in my opinion. We havent even discovered all the different kinds and many of them are linked to emotional responses. There a little more to the way our brain codes things.

how does your opinion matter? there has been no evidence of them doing anything beyond inhibition or acceleration of signals, the emotional response is only the "when" and "where" of the chemicals, not the "what"

Really now? How much of that did you guys steal when we we fell apart?

oh get over it, you've had plenty of time to try and catch up. you fail.
you were already lagging way behind us before the 1990s

Such dedication is not seen in much of the Western world, and definetly not in the US

so you've NEVER heard of consumerism, thats odd, as you like to argue about it alot.

Here its whatever makes the largest profits, not what actually benifits the peopl.

its the same thing you twit...

Why cure AIDS when you can earn so much money making pills for eractile disfunction. Hm?

ok then, wheres russias cure eh? we definately have gone much farther downt that road than russia, its because

our system WORKS.

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how does your opinion matter? there has been no evidence of them doing anything beyond inhibition or acceleration of signals, the emotional response is only the "when" and "where" of the chemicals, not the "what

Oh theres proof, why do endorphins cause happiness and dull pain, thats a direct link by the way. Aph(Forget what is tands for) tends to calm people, there are many things neurochemicals do that we havent even begun exploring

oh get over it, you've had plenty of time to try and catch up. you fail.
you were already lagging way behind us before the 1990s

Not really. And how are we supposed to catch up when our governments money keeps being luandered away to Western countires? While the US calls its sweet siren song of wealth to our scientists?

so you've NEVER heard of consumerism, thats odd, as you like to argue about it alot.

But thats the thing, morals regardless the people of this country will do what gets them the dough.

its the same thing you twit...

No it isnt.

ok then, wheres russias cure eh? we definately have gone much farther downt that road than russia, its because

our system WORKS.

I never said we had a cure. I am saying that the western world is relying on a system that is self destructive. And stop being such a righteous defended of it, it borders on you being brainwashed, which I already suspect anyways.

The system works now, but as consumerism and capatalism rise the world morals will decline. Since there is no necessity for innovation, here in the fat, wealthy, beligured, sexually inept, and bordering on moronic West, if it can be replaced simply with a dose of Viagra, and some porno flicks. Hm?

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why do endorphins cause happiness and dull pain, thats a direct link by the way. Aph(Forget what is tands for) tends to calm people, there are many things neurochemicals do that we havent even begun exploring

because they target certain regions of the brain associated with mood and pain sensory. I told you, its "where" and "when" not "what" thats important.

Not really. And how are we supposed to catch up when our governments money keeps being luandered away to Western countires? While the US calls its sweet siren song of wealth to our scientists?

our system WORKS.
I thought you should realize this by now.

No it isnt.

yes it is. what benefits the people is what hte people buy, then thats what gets the most money. see the connection yet?

I never said we had a cure. I am saying that the western world is relying on a system that is self destructive

but it isn't see?
and besides, you were claiming the russians were doing better in tech, and that theirs was truly "for the people", so ergo you should have a cure for HIV, no?

And stop being such a righteous defended of it, it borders on you being brainwashed, which I already suspect anyways.

so the one who follows logic is the one who's brainwashed... as opposed to the one who blatently follows the propoganda of his motherland without any proof?

Since there is no necessity for innovation, here in the fat, wealthy, beligured, sexually inept, and bordering on moronic West, if it can be replaced simply with a dose of Viagra, and some porno flicks. Hm?

yes, your cynical nature is funny, but its also innacurate

if we really were happy with the way things are now, why do we churn out (and call to us) the best scientists in the world? why do we produce the most needed and best crafted technologies? why do you believe that russia, which is in the middle of basically raping everything below its "high in the sky" class, is better off?

The system works now, but as consumerism and capatalism rise the world morals will decline

you have neither proof nor precedence, come back again when you can support the wildly outrageous claims you make.

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yes it is. what benefits the people is what hte people buy

that is probably the WORST point you could have made

The system works now, but as consumerism and capatalism rise the world morals will decline
you have neither proof nor precedence, come back again when you can support the wildly outrageous claims you make.

too lazy to make the quotes work, but it has nothing to do with capitalism, it is just that the better people have it, the more they are prone to screw it all up

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yes it is. what benefits the people is what hte people buy, then thats what gets the most money. see the connection yet?

Okay then, people buy alcohol, it causes liver disease. People buy fatning foods, that causes diabeties. People smoke and do drugs and that leads to addiction and untimely death. It all earns our economy billions of dollars, yet it doesnt really benifit the people does it?

and besides, you were claiming the russians were doing better in tech, and that theirs was truly "for the people", so ergo you should have a cure for HIV, no?

Where, quote me, where did I say that? I say we might excell in aviation and that for our people were willing to work years after the government couldnt pay, we did research to better our country in a time of desperation. Now, we were never largely effected by AIDS, but our education systems have spawned some of the greates biochemical engineers in the world and they now work for German firms making chemical weapons for America.

so the one who follows logic is the one who's brainwashed... as opposed to the one who blatently follows the propoganda of his motherland without any proof?

Logic of the Western world, logic you have been fed from the begining of your life time till now. And look at what it spawned. Your country has its own propoganda, and it is much worse then mine. At least I am willing to admit that my country has comitted autrocities, can you say the same?

you have neither proof nor precedence, come back again when you can support the wildly outrageous claims you make.

I have proof and precedence. Look at Walmart, Nike, how about Coca-Cola? Walmart makes use of the poor in other countries that produce goods that are cheaper then those made by american companies and runs suppliers that still run some form of a moral code out of bussiness. Nike supports hundreds of sweatshops in East Asia and uses enviornmentally unfriendly dies and materials. Coca-Cola and almost all food companies are causing obesiety, and long term health problems that they dont even admit to the public they could cause. Wiki just released a report that tracked who edited what and when, and the main editors were food corporations. An employee from Pepsi removed an entire section titled "Long Term Heal Effect".

Now do you call this not a decline of morals?

if we really were happy with the way things are now, why do we churn out (and call to us) the best scientists in the world? why do we produce the most needed and best crafted technologies? why do you believe that russia, which is in the middle of basically raping everything below its "high in the sky" class, is better off?

You make the false illusion that you do. In reality what you do is cause a 'brain drain' on countries that are less adept to the cruel 'science' of capatalism.

Hundreds of Thousands of brilliant minded parents come to this country and then produce brilliant minded children. It has nothing to do with your education system, you cannot mold intelligence, people are born with it. Now your education system better allows them to find a happier existance, but it for sure does not necessarily advance their natural tallents.

Hm?

You owe your scientist to the world, not to your country.

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[quote]it is just that the better people have it, the more they are prone to screw it all up [/quuote]

Oh, I like that, very well said

yes, your cynical nature is funny, but its also innacurate

You know what I say... The jester beats the King.

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Oh, I like that, very well said

very well quoted

Hundreds of Thousands of brilliant minded parents come to this country and then produce brilliant minded children. It has nothing to do with your education system, you cannot mold intelligence, people are born with it. Now your education system better allows them to find a happier existance, but it for sure does not necessarily advance their natural tallents.

that is somewhat true, some are born with a higher IQ than others, but the american education system makes it easier to show your smarts at any class than is possible in most other countries. Also, please dont tell me about how in japan, children spend pretty much all their time studying while in america kids just watch TV. The difference there is culture based, it has nothing to do with the education system. The american educational system gives children better resources and an overall better learning experience than most countries.

Okay then, people buy alcohol, it causes liver disease. People buy fatning foods, that causes diabeties. People smoke and do drugs and that leads to addiction and untimely death. It all earns our economy billions of dollars, yet it doesnt really benifit the people does it?

refer to my worst possible point comment

Where, quote me, where did I say that? I say we might excell in aviation and that for our people were willing to work years after the government couldnt pay, we did research to better our country in a time of desperation.

under pain of Siberia.

Now, we were never largely effected by AIDS, but our education systems have spawned some of the greates biochemical engineers in the world and they now work for German firms making chemical weapons for America.

just like you said, intelligence for the most part begets intelligence, has nothing to do with ur school system. (pick one side or the other

)

Logic of the Western world, logic you have been fed from the begining of your life time till now. And look at what it spawned. Your country has its own propoganda, and it is much worse then mine. At least I am willing to admit that my country has comitted autrocities, can you say the same?

heh, everybody is immersed in propaganda from birth, the only difference between these people is how much salt they are willing to eat.

Now do you call this not a decline of morals?

no, i call that greed, something that has existed from the dawn of time and will continue to exist. If people don't care that what they are doing is bad for them, they will do it. The real moral decline of america is the "if it feels good, do it" attitude that began to permeate our society. But people became aware of it, and *most* in the younger generations are seeing what is happening because of it, and therefore shy away from it.

please dont get into an argument over the *most* thing, if you think it is a smaller percentage and you have a graph or a large sample of personal experience, then say it, but please dont argue back and forth about the percents.

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that is somewhat true, some are born with a higher IQ than others, but the american education system makes it easier to show your smarts at any class than is possible in most other countries. Also, please dont tell me about how in japan, children spend pretty much all their time studying while in america kids just watch TV. The difference there is culture based, it has nothing to do with the education system. The american educational system gives children better resources and an overall better learning experience than most countries.

I agree with that, thats why I said "a happier existance", the system here allows for a lot of leneancy and freedom and I like that.

under pain of Siberia.

I was talking about after the Soviet Union collapsed.

just like you said, intelligence for the most part begets intelligence, has nothing to do with ur school system.

Yes yes, but our system forces kids with a certain type of skill or talent to persue it. Thereby actually forcing them to fulfill a much larger potential, though the kids arent really happy about it.

no, i call that greed, something that has existed from the dawn of time and will continue to exist. If people don't care that what they are doing is bad for them, they will do it. The real moral decline of america is the "if it feels good, do it" attitude that began to permeate our society. But people became aware of it, and *most* in the younger generations are seeing what is happening because of it, and therefore shy away from it.

Shy away from past problems yes, but now theres a bunch of new problems to deal with. The attitude is still the same, even worse in some cases. I mean I went school shopping with my brother this week and the clothes on sale for 9 year olds made me shiver with disgust at what we may be breeding for the next generation of american consumers.

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Yes but not being able to do math wont

A math chip was only an example of such implants. The point was that a cyborg would generally require parts and service to survive that a normal human would not. Consider that I was also talking about people that had critical organs replaced by machines. A man could live to hundreds of years of age if he had artificial organs that... if serviced did not fail under age.

you could also have people with tools built in their bodies. And these tools while normally not damaging to the person... even if they stopped working, might cause complications if the man became hurt. Lets say you had a small computer built into your body, a speaker implant in your ear, and a mic implant in your throat... perhaps even a communications antenna in an arm. lets say this individual falls and hurts his arm and now this artifact is sticking out of his skin?... does he try to cut what is sticking out? does he shove that bit back into his flesh and hope it mends?

Complications.

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Yes yes, but our system forces kids with a certain type of skill or talent to persue it. Thereby actually forcing them to fulfill a much larger potential, though the kids arent really happy about it.

eh, thats an arguable point, but i just took my pills so ill see if im still up to it tomorrow

Shy away from past problems yes, but now theres a bunch of new problems to deal with. The attitude is still the same, even worse in some cases. I mean I went school shopping with my brother this week and the clothes on sale for 9 year olds made me shiver with disgust at what we may be breeding for the next generation of american consumers.

more and more people are shivering with disgust at it though. well, that may not be true, there is no way to quantitatively tell how many people shiver, but people ARE becoming more outspoken to the fact of how *gross* it is.

I think a major point is that there is no government that will last forever...
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience [has] shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce [the people] under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776.

any government will eventually become corrupt, it doesnt matter how hard people try to make it fair and equal, the people elected will always become corrupt. The more power you have, the more you are corrupt, the less power you have, the less things that can get done. There is no balance because people are inherently lazy and corrupt, even if there was a perfect system, the human equation would mess everything up. Things WILL get worse and then they WILL get better.

karma, if you had an implant in your ear that processed sounds from far away and then sent them directly to your brain, your body would stop using its eardrums since they would just get in the way.
I think a big misconception here is that cybernetics would come out and then everyone would use them and then civilization would collapse. IMO, this is NOT how it would happen, cybernetics would be developed and then slowly introduced into society, mostly starting with the medical industry. After that, people would start adding in things such as auditory processors into their children from birth. Now the question becomes, do they remove the eardrum and whatnot and replace it with a chip, or do they add the chip onto the eardrum? if they remove the eardrum, when the chip dies the person is deaf. If they add it on during birth and then the chip dies, who knows what will happen?

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karma if he was having vital organs replaced he would die when tech stuff failed anyway... you're point is now circling back on itself and not making sense.

emp and sqrls; dont do some lovebird chain posting, you sound like idiots.

that is somewhat true, some are born with a higher IQ than others

that has not even been remotely proved, in fact most neurologists believe that IQ is in fact NOT connected to heredity at all, merely a fact of stimulation.

YES there is some corrolation, but DNA as causation is at best VERY questionable.

Okay then, people buy alcohol, it causes liver disease. People buy fatning foods, that causes diabeties. People smoke and do drugs and that leads to addiction and untimely death. It all earns our economy billions of dollars, yet it doesnt really benifit the people does it?

insulin injections, blood tests, computers, sunglasses with UV protection, better sunblock, healthier food, hybrid cars, ethanol gasolene, smoke PATCHES, music, baby CDs, video games
dont go calling on a few bad examples to try and negate a world of good.

(pick one side or the other )

he doesnt like to restrict his BS to one type

I agree with that, thats why I said "a happier existance", the system here allows for a lot of leneancy and freedom and I like that.

how about the fact we turn out not only more productive, but harder working individuals, and how about we have 7/10 top best schools in the world, how about this:

Yes yes, but our system forces kids with a certain type of skill or talent to persue it. Thereby actually forcing them to fulfill a much larger potential, though the kids arent really happy about it.

let me point out that america still rocks Russian ass in all forms of technology that is remotely useful. you really cannot say that your education is more efficient if all it does is scare away your people to America.

The attitude is still the same, even worse in some cases. I mean I went school shopping with my brother this week and the clothes on sale for 9 year olds made me shiver with disgust at what we may be breeding for the next generation of american consumers.

your amazing talant at vagueness is amazing, dont elaborate.

no, i call that greed, something that has existed from the dawn of time and will continue to exist. If people don't care that what they are doing is bad for them, they will do it. The real moral decline of america is the "if it feels good, do it" attitude that began to permeate our society. But people became aware of it, and *most* in the younger generations are seeing what is happening because of it, and therefore shy away from it.

see, the thing about capitalism is that it creates its own smart enough generations that counter the mistakes of the past. thats just another reason we're so damn good. people look at their parents and say "you suck, I'll fix everything you screwed up" and wam, we have ethanol gas.

I was talking about after the Soviet Union collapsed.

the only noticeable contributions russia has ever really made were before it collapsed, the one exception being that it gave us all its scientists afterward.

heh, everybody is immersed in propaganda from birth, the only difference between these people is how much salt they are willing to eat.

I take an extra pinch of salt so that I'm immune to the delusions of the "you suxors" political group, aka neodems.

I agree with that, thats why I said "a happier existance", the system here allows for a lot of leneancy and freedom and I like that.

then why do you bash on it like it sucks? because it beats the russian system hands down.

Also, please dont tell me about how in japan, children spend pretty much all their time studying while in america kids just watch TV. The difference there is culture based, it has nothing to do with the education system. The american educational system gives children better resources and an overall better learning experience than most countries.

for the first part: america has the most productive people in the world, the whole "americans watch TV & 4re l4zy sux0rz" delusion is a myth. as for the second part

DAMN!

someone who realizes.

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ee, the thing about capitalism is that it creates its own smart enough generations that counter the mistakes of the past. thats just another reason we're so damn good. people look at their parents and say "you suck, I'll fix everything you screwed up" and wam, we have ethanol gas.

uhm... where to start...
A) I think the biggest problem that this country has (and quite a few people agree with me here) is that we rely far too heavily on what our children will fix.

most people just say "you suck"

C) ethanol isnt working as well as hoped, but i get your point.

I take an extra pinch of salt so that I'm immune to the delusions of the "you suxors" political group, aka neodems.

or is the salt just propaganda? if only we could truly take a third person perspective of the world... too bad nobody would listen

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A) I think the biggest problem that this country has (and quite a few people agree with me here) is that we rely far too heavily on what our children will fix.

its worked in the past, its continuing to work. I dont see the reason for your skepticism.

or is the salt just propaganda? if only we could truly take a third person perspective of the world... too bad nobody would listen

nothings perfect, but taking in data and reading it from a (trying) neutral perspective is much better than lashing onto propoganda and whatever is at your fingertips *cough* emp *cough*.

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any government will eventually become corrupt, it doesnt matter how hard people try to make it fair and equal, the people elected will always become corrupt. The more power you have, the more you are corrupt, the less power you have, the less things that can get done. There is no balance because people are inherently lazy and corrupt, even if there was a perfect system, the human equation would mess everything up. Things WILL get worse and then they WILL get better.

The eternal cycle. But I disagree with one portion, we are inherently innovative and hard wokring, we have just lost our way because of the bounty our ancestors have generated.

that has not even been remotely proved, in fact most neurologists believe that IQ is in fact NOT connected to heredity at all, merely a fact of stimulation.

YES there is some corrolation, but DNA as causation is at best VERY questionable.

You must have the capacity to do so.

insulin injections, blood tests, computers, sunglasses with UV protection, better sunblock, healthier food, hybrid cars, ethanol gasolene, smoke PATCHES, music, baby CDs, video games
dont go calling on a few bad examples to try and negate a world of good.

We wouldnt need insulin injections if it wasnt for the fattening food, we wouldnt need blood tests if big pharma would concentrate on curing diseases,we wouldnt need more UV protection if the ozone wasnt disappearing, hybrid cars are just the industries excuese to not further other energy source reasearch, more people buy cigarrates then niccatine(not smoke) patches, music should be free, baby CDs are hoaxe, video games rot your brain and waste your tim.

Plus you stated that what people buy automatically benifits them, and in that you were wrong. Your overconfidence is your weakness.

how about the fact we turn out not only more productive, but harder working individuals, and how about we have 7/10 top best schools in the world, how about this:

You have the money to make it so.

you really cannot say that your education is more efficient if all it does is scare away your people to America.

It doesnt scare poeple away fool, the lack of money does

your amazing talant at vagueness is amazing, dont elaborate.

Vague? The tail tell sighs of consumerism poisoning is everywhere.

see, the thing about capitalism is that it creates its own smart enough generations that counter the mistakes of the past. thats just another reason we're so damn good. people look at their parents and say "you suck, I'll fix everything you screwed up" and wam, we have ethanol gas.

You cant always fix everything, Rome learned that the hard way.

I take an extra pinch of salt so that I'm immune to the delusions of the "you suxors" political group, aka neodems

Haha, way to be uncreative

then why do you bash on it like it sucks? because it beats the russian system hands down.

I 'bash' on it because it could be better.

for the first part: america has the most productive people in the world, the whole "americans watch TV & 4re l4zy sux0rz" delusion is a myth. as for the second part

Well, we do tend to waste a lot of time on trying to escape reality. Vidoe games and Television are the worst of three, reading is the better one.

its worked in the past, its continuing to work. I dont see the reason for your skepticism.

Nothing lasts forever?

nothings perfect, but taking in data and reading it from a (trying) neutral perspective is much better than lashing onto propoganda and whatever is at your fingertips *cough* emp *cough*.

Right, and you dont do the same? I know I tend to ramble and preach, but at least I am also willing to doubt and re-reason.

But lets attack each others reasoning capabilites. After all to be wrong is to be human. Now I am off to eat some fruits.

HM?

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Ashes of the Singularity

Why the future doesnt need us

Superintelligent AI and the Singularity