Vasari is underpowered!?

Multianna

Join Date 10/2006

+10

Vasari is underpowered!?

Ive had a few games now and gotten to some "conclusion" that the vasari is weak compared to the TEC.

Since conclusion is in "" is because i and a few others might be using them wrong

To get to the point, i was thinking they would be upper ships and very few of them, but the TEC would counter this as the have more cash to build more, so it still would be a 50/50 change to win.

We had some disscussion about it on IRC (im using SDC so i dont have the log) where some say they aint ment for brute force. Or that they have upper skills, then i have to wonder why im losing almost every battle encounter with the TEC, as the TEC has a few more ships and the Vasari got a 1 more armor, it doesnt add up. This is both early and late game it seems to be the same.

All this doesnt make any sense to me, as the TEC have been in peace for 10.000 years, the Vasari should obviously be way stronger.

Also on IRC it was said the Vasari got Phase Gate to get your ships fast and inbehind enemy lines they are better. Well as it is now the Phase Gate tech is at civic lvl 9 and before you even get there its very very late game.

Just to let anyone know i love sins, just dont see where the Vasari is as powerful as the Lore and dev's says

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But it's still not going to make it into release, since it'd be a brand new thing and they said they don't have time for it, so

there's always room for one more

. and who knows?

btw does anyone know what happens to a vasari fleet when its gate is destroyed while in transit? would be funny if the complete fleet were destroyed, would make the tech not so ridiculously strong.

Well, when the destination gate is destroyed nothing happens -- they finish jumping as per the usual.

I presumed, but I wanted to be sure, because it never happened to me. the game could be cruel and say "phase tunnel collapsed, emergency drop to real space". yeah, a full fleet stranded in the middle of nowhere:D

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Maybe they should get sucked to the nearest phase gate?

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I kinda doubt it, as of current phasespacing is more or less "fire and forget"

if you have it take so many tac slots that you can barely build anything else there, it becomes a risky thing and a bit harder to defend.

uh, not if you choose the right planet to put it on

its simply not feasible.

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Multianna

Join Date 10/2006

+10

Schod, id like to apologize to you for my behavior

it wasnt right and i may have over reacted abit too much. As ive been comming to my senses and talked to Annatar, ive come to see my wrong doings

so an apology you have from me

And as i sit here and watch a replay where i see the phase gate being used (maybe one of the first replays of it) where i really can see its power being used. Not the Dark fleet thing, but just the insane amount of time that is saved for a fleet to travel from one place to another is HUGE and may even be as its right place at lvl 9 cause of its potential.
So now i see what you meant by it

The only thing i wise i could see more of is (not an insane increase) a few lessor ships on the Vasari side (not models) and a few more on the TEC side

As this thread do not serve a purpose anymore (or it actually never have except making confusing a the forum) i request the thread to be locked.
So if Kryo dont see it first ill request it tomorrow.

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well if this thread does get locked I just want to say:
Multi, you're ideas were not without merit, they were just far too potent to be considerable with the vasari as is.

as for your "inappropriate behavior" I think everyone agrees thats my fault.

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*throws party hats all around*

Hope shines upon these forums

And all it took were a few games and replays

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yes, I'm digging up that thread again, but don't worry, I make a new suggestion that fits the current play style.

reduce the grav well size (relevant for jumping) from the very beginning or include an early lvl tech to do it. there is already a lvl 7 or so tech that does it and its very powerful I'd say. we could maybe have half of the effect of this tech as a racial trait to boost the vasari early on ( or less if that proves too powerful, I can't remember how much the tech reduces it), because most feel that especially at the beginning they are a bit in the weaker position compared to tech. I'd say its a nice way to give them a little edge and will definately make them play differently from the very beginning without breaking with the way the race is meant to be played.

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Hope shines upon these forums And all it took were a few games and replays

Lets hope the hope shines through the incomming Time of The Noobs.

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beginning they are a bit in the weaker position compared to tech

I would not say that they are weaker tech-wise. They have a slight weakness because they are more immediately dependent on fleet points which sets them back economically, but that doesn't last long if the Vasari player focuses on eliminating that first before worrying about techs--early on the base difference in shields/hull is enough to allow you to put off military techs for a little while.

It's more that the techs that really make them stand out as a race are fairly high up in the tree and takes some getting to

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Hope shines upon these forums And all it took were a few games and replays

Lets hope the hope shines through the incomming Time of The Noobs.

yeah, if our most experienced players are mislead by simple lore, I think we're gonna have a serious issue with people who "just dont get" the Vasari.

whining predicts I.

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beginning they are a bit in the weaker position compared to tech

I misspelled, I meant tec of course.

in any case, giving them a little grav well bonus early on would allow them to use their mobility nicely right from the start and attack/ harrass to buy time for teching up the tech tree. certainly a more creative way than boost their econ or direct strengh.

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whining predicts I.

You are wise Master Schemoda.

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lordkosc

Join Date 12/2006

hmmm... I feel Huggles are in order, *HUGGLES EVERYONE*

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Multianna

Join Date 10/2006

+10

hmmm... I feel Huggles are in order, *HUGGLES EVERYONE*

*walks away*

*runs back and gives a forever hug*

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lordkosc

Join Date 12/2006

you couldn't resist!

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*takes out his trusty can of Grandmammy's tripple extra-strength chili-pepper-spray*

*doses kosc with an excesssive ammount*

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lordkosc

Join Date 12/2006

where is EET? I need this licked off me...

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+367

*finds that disturbing*

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*wonders why this thread won't die*

*places a thermo nuke for the next poster*

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psychoak

Join Date 07/2007

+225

Sweet! I always wanted one of these.

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*Shoots psychoak and takes nuke*

Sweet! I always wanted one of these.

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Multianna

Join Date 10/2006

+10

*Shoots ScourgeOfGod and takes nuke*

Sweet! I always wanted one of these.

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well back on topic, the problem as I see it is:

1- In small games whereby vasari cannot tech up to the appropriate techs, they have a distinct disadvantage at this time.

2- In games where vasari can tech up they are extremely strong, especially if they can abuse the dark fleet too much (it might be broken atm (creating -30 to -300 supply in some cases), but Im sure there will be a few ways to abuse it even if it is limited by supply.

Basically the vasari create a problem that without specific high techs they are too weak and once they get to those techs they can become significantly strong.

This isn't a good way to create balanced sides in a RTS game, (e.g. one side strength increases by a few hundred % when it attain tech level/unit/tech x). The developers should look for different ways to slowly implement phase gates or make it some underlining tech that starts really slow/limited and only gets better. The dark fleet tech should be looked at in several ways.

well cu.

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*shoots archsi and multi with a harpoon (shishkabob!) and takes the nuke*

*blows it up before anyone gets the chance to take it again*

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*mourns the death of Multi, psychoak, Scourge, archpsi, and Schem*

*places another nuke, and leaves*

D:

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