Following that logic, the people who can/enjoy to micromanage shouldn't have to sit helplessly and watch the AI do everything.

So where does that leave us?

Better versions aren't different from tech advances from a mechanical perspective. Even more complex mechanical variations, like elephants over cavalry, are just a combination of increases. You can simulate identical effects in civ by replacing new units with upgrades for the originals as soon as you have enough to propogate each new variant. A cobalt could remain a cobalt for the duration of the game, but mechanically it's the same as a new ship every time it upgrades, just like the maceman over the axeman.

For micro, is it really that fun to select your group of lrm frigates and manually target a specific enemy capital ship? Having something to do is not the same as having something to think about, and strategy games by definition are supposed to require thinking, if sadly lacking it in the typical rts game. Combat coming down to how fast your fingers move instead of how fast your brain works is really depressing, even when I had fast fingers it was depressing.

If tactical maneuvers were actually useful on a large scale instead of running a cobalt through the enemy line while they're targetting it so they turn, you could do something with the game that was meaningful. The mitigation system, with a bit of tweaking, could create a system where 1-1 combats were optimal efficiency. By creating performance hits from being under fire and having substantially more impressive mitigation effects(think logarithmic and based on the ratio of fire compared to max shield strength, with one on one for cobalts being down at 20% and two on one being closer to 50, instead of 22 and 24) you would force a more realistic combat system where maneuvering helps, and focusing fire doesn't.

Alas, words like morale strike terror into the hearts of tard rts fans, so we'll probably never get a real one.

Because we trust in the dev's promise for improved AI.

And it is a mentality -- a habit of thought and approach. If one player breaks free from it, it forces the others to do so -- or loose -- but alas, its difficult to break free from it, especially on smaller maps.

how??? its not like you can turn the ships backwards and forwards to ahve them dodge artillery... micro could use a bit more in Sins.

you're right that it shouldnt be a clickfest, but if I'm focusing down in on a battle where its 3:4, if I'm microing the 3 side I should still have a decent chance of victory against someone who is not microing the 4 side. otherwise microing would be a COMPLETE waste of time.

  
please dont make me use the "noo" word!

steamroller mentality is certainly the noob (dammit!) tactic of this game, yes its functional if you're lucky, but its far less effective than splitting your fleet up. why? because if your enemy is trying to steamroll you can harass him with the proper units, attack his rear flank or just bring local groups together to hit him when he isnt expecting. all of that works beautifully

if you havent seen steamroller get crushed, nobody in your games (including yourself) have been playing your fleet cards correctly.

ask emp, I've pulled some pretty fancy assassinations off on entanglement by using a detatchment of a fleet.

ok, thats a much better statement.

p5yy this isnt some exclusivity thing, its just that people dont know any better as of yet. it doesnt require more skill, simply more attention

people will understand pretty soon, not to say that I'm against any more anti-steamroller counters. thats fine by me.

THANK YOU! p5yy pretty much nailed it on the head. Its not the quantity of micro that needs the attention. Sins doesnt need any more micro (except for formation management). It is the "quality" of the existing micro that needs the work. For example if i form a fleet with a Kol, Marza, and an Akkan, right now i will have to select each cap ship individually to manually fire their ability's (if i dont have them on autocast). Why not have all of their ability's easily accessible in the control panal when i select that whole group? Same thing, less clicking. Thats one example on how to improve the existing micro.

Of course microing should be better than letting the AI handle things. Thats why micro is there to begin with. However, there can be, and "should" be situations to where you wont be able to micro everything. That is why the Macro AI should be the best it can be. So you dont have to worry if your garrison fleets are going to get stupid (like the AI is now), and hand over the enemy a world on a silver platter.

On very small maps i can see how one can stick with a single fleet.. hell i have done it myself. Especially in AI games. However the few multiplayer game i have played i have seen this metality on big maps. From what i gather in the posts some have broken that habit, and are exploring the other possibility's. It is correct to assume that steamroll is a noob tactic. Sure steamroll will work in the short run, but against a smart player with well balanced multiple fleets i can almost guarantee a defeat for the steamroller.

On big maps like areolan sector, or 50+ planet single star maps you need to divide your forces up, or else you are begging to be defeated. 3 well balanced fleets should be a minimum for any large map plus raiding/distraction fleets. Remember it is a large game of chess. Not spam, and rush until 1 side breaks. Place you pieces to best advantage then strike. While your opponent is trying to do the same. That is grand strategy. Not focusing on 1 single objective, but looking at the entire scenario, and planning the best course of action to take. Of course in critical battles it is intended for the player to personally take over that particular fleet. Then that is when you go into the tactics, and micro

The problem with the autocast is that I cant really see how improved AI is going to help some of them

imo , what needs to change is how the abilities are used.

forexample the Shield Restore...

It should instead restore minimal shields to all within a sphere of influence. This results in two things...

Firstly for manual use , all you need to do is just press the shield restore button
and Secondly autocast would be better at mimicing what a player would do since its simplified. And because an autocast can better mimic what you would do manually , you then dont need to have to constantly manually micro it.

Space RTS's has been few and far between.

We have had Nexus and the Homeworlds to name a few but nothing recent , need I say more?

I think what people are saying is they like the game speed. i.e. the current rate of build up, they just want the research to take longer so it A) Has more of an impact, and means we aren't done with research by the time we reach out of our first star system.

What game holds that crown atm???