The Mission system Sucks » Forum Post by xerleh

Blair Fraser

Join Date 10/2006

+292

I agree the mission system could use some improvements but the problems you outlined don't reflect the mission system as it currently stands:

1. You CAN request missions from other computer players once you've earned enough favor with them. How to do this is included in the manual (the printed manual, the pdf shipped with the digital download, and the pdf included with the demo).

2. You start with 0% happiness anyways so failing to do a mission isn't going to make you any worse off with the player who requested the mission.

3. The enemies aren't neccessarily allied with each other so it may be in their best interest to get you to attack someone who happens to be your ally. If anything, that makes their AI smarter.

4. Press "Pause/Break" button to pause the game. Its usually at the top right of the keyboard.

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Blair, that's the nicest - and fully justified - way of saying
RTFM
that I've ever seen.

What MIGHT be appropriate is to include an "immediately decline because it's my ally" button on the Mission description screen. Clicking it increases the probability of spawning a different mission, one that might be against one of your enemies, a little faster. This would have to be carefully managed to avoid players clicking through missions until they find one that they're going to accomplish very shortly, hence the restriction that it would only occur against allies.

-- Retro

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The "attack this" or "defend that" requests you can send to allies are nice but they are nowhere near requesting missions like the AI does. And they also only work for allies. I'd love to bribe the AI with credits into attacking another AI while not being allied to any of them (GC2 Drath style

).

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I'd love to bribe the AI with credits into attacking another AI while not being allied to any of them (GC2 Drath style ).

That's essentially the role the pirates fill.

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I agree the mission system could use some improvements but the problems you outlined don't reflect the mission system as it currently stands:
1. You CAN request missions from other computer players once you've earned enough favor with them. How to do this is included in the manual (the printed manual, the pdf shipped with the digital download, and the pdf included with the demo).
2. You start with 0% happiness anyways so failing to do a mission isn't going to make you any worse off with the player who requested the mission.
3. The enemies aren't neccessarily allied with each other so it may be in their best interest to get you to attack someone who happens to be your ally. If anything, that makes their AI smarter.
4. Press "Pause/Break" button to pause the game. Its usually at the top right of the keyboard.

Sorry, but I can't find anywhere in the manual that describes how you can set missions (such as give credits/metal/crystal) for other players to perform for you.

Could you give us a page number? Or perhaps explain how the process is accomplished?

Thanks

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You can't request materials. But you can specify points to defend / attack.

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Page 22.

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But wasn't requesting materials (as the computer players do) what Xerleh originally asked in his post?

I think someone was a little too quick to tell him to RTFM.

Regardless, a feature such as this would be useful in PvP games.

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No. You should RTFP. He asked about 'missions'. You can request missions.

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No. You should RTFP. He asked about 'missions'. You can request missions.

No need to be rude Gerry. Actually, page 22 in the manual doesn't mention missions at all, but calls them "Ally Requests".

Page 31 discusses "Missions", which is what the poster originally asked: "You should be able to decline the mission and offer the other players missioins."

So would I be correct in saying that you can make Ally Requests, but not request the players to perform missions (and I mean missions as described on page 31 of the manual)?

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No need to be rude Gerry. Actually, page 22 in the manual doesn't mention missions at all, but calls them "Ally Requests".Page 31 discusses "Missions", which is what the poster originally asked: "You should be able to decline the mission and offer the other players missioins."So would I be correct in saying that you can make Ally Requests, but not request the players to perform missions (and I mean missions as described on page 31 of the manual)?

No rudeness here, only a response to your sarcastic tone.

It is all in the manual.

Missions and ally request, from the player pov, are the same thing. The only difference is that you can't request materials from the AI. But you can offer 'gifts'to the AI wich in turn will help it to do a mission for you.

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I does seem a little one sided. As I understand it the AI can simply demand materials from you until they are happy enough to allow you to ally with them. It seems it is set up so that the AI is always acting from an assumed position of power when this may not be the case in reality. I should be able to go up to an AI that has 0% happiness and demand they give me cash or I step on their balls (or alien equivalent thereof) and if they suck up to ME enough I may allow them the privileged of allying with ME. Why should I have to kiss the AIs ass before I can ask them for anything? They don't.

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The mission system does suck though. Almost all the AI will offer trade with me, then 2 minutes later revoke it. Sure enough, 10-15 minutes later that same AI will do it all over.

Also, most missions are stupid, or even impossible. Destroy 10 buildings, yet the enemy doesnt have 10 buildings near me. For a 4x game, the diplomacy is horrendous. For an RTS, its ok, but I rarely use it since the AI has ADHD. Its also kinda crappy that everyone starts hostile and you cant change that in the settings. It would be nice to play a FFA with alliances being broken and changing.

As someone above said, its also crappy I have to kiss the AIs ass to talk to them, especially when I'm #1 in all rankings. They should be kissing my ass. Compared to games like Total War or Civ, the AI's diplomacy pretty much sucks.

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As someone above said, its also crappy I have to kiss the AIs ass to talk to them, especially when I'm #1 in all rankings. They should be kissing my ass. Compared to games like Total War or Civ, the AI's diplomacy pretty much sucks.

Yes that is what bothers me. In my last game I was cleaning house and I still got the message from the AI that he/she was losing patience with me because I failed a mission. Bite me Mr. AI you have no chance of winning this game.

I agree that the mission system could use some work. Actually I think it needs lots of work. As someone else stated its just not deep enough for a 4x game. I think you should be able to ask for things like in the Civ games. I don't mean rally points or whatever. I mean "hey Advent guy give me some crystal" since I gave you some a while back. "Hey advent destroy x stuctures" "Hey Advent guy lay waste to that planets defenses so I can move in". I don't know how it was in Gal Civ 2 since I didn't play but I would like it to be a bit deeper like something akin to the Civ series. At the very least (I mean the very least) it should not be yelling at me when I have 1s in every category and am by far the top dog.

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Truthfully I for myself use "Locked Aliances" in Single player as I prefer to concentrate on my own empire management. I prefer the "Master of Orion" style of diplomacy such as other empires wishing to trade technoloy, or warn you about your military buildup on their border or demanding planets. When I play SINS with diplomacy I tend to just ignore the AI and they all end up attacking me.

*Corrected spelling.

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At first I just made the time between quests extremely long, then I discoverd locked teams.

My hate is unwavering, don't bother me with the pitiful petitions...

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In the early game the mission system is necessary to secure a flank from attack. It works pretty well. It doesn't help me win on unfair, but it lets me win games on hard, because I can get an ally on one flank by attacking the other....

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I also think the AI's are rather dumb about choosing their requests, in a recent game against 3 AI's, the early stages ended up with me beating up AI1, while AI's 2&3 fought each other, but often they asked for missions for me to attack AI1, whereas common sense says they should only ask for missions against their enemy.

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Actually I've been very pleased with the diplomacy behavior in SoaSE. While there may not be as many options for negotiations as in Civilization or other 4X games, SoaSE's diplomacy model is a perfect fit for its RT4X style. Morever, in many games like Total War I had a very hard time coordinating with my allies, while very often in Sins my allies will spontaneously come to my aid when one of my planets are under attack or join my fleet for a push into enemy territory.

So yeah - the diplomacy may not be as deep as other 4X games, but it is simple, clear, and very useful. I'd take that over a needlessly complex system any day.

Note: I have also seen alliances between other computer players rise and fall. If you truly created the game as a free for all, there should be no surprise that alliances are fragile and quick to change, and comp players would be happy to try and sabotage your alliance.

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No. You should RTFP. He asked about 'missions'. You can request missions.

In the context of his post I'm pretty sure by "request missions" he's not saying " I love missions so much I was I could ask for more." I read it as "those AI punks constantly hit me up for money and stuff, and I can't make those same requests of them."

In any case, mission system is a misnomer, it's more of an extortion system.

One thing I do wish is that the mission generator was tweaked so it would bias towards missions against enemies that I can get at, and to a lesser extent, both I and the mission giver dislike. The reward could reflect that too, so you'd get less for beating up on the empire next door that's already pissing you off, and more for having to make 8 jumps to attack your friend.

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