MadBoris

Join Date 03/2007

What's really in Entrenchment from the past year?

From what information I've been able to garner from previews and around the forum it seems to come down to mainly two things:

* Starbases

* Mines

Was there other large updates I am unaware about, like graphics or AI?

Sure, there maybe little tweaks that could also be seen in a patch, but what other big changes are there?

Sins was released a year ago this month, is this really all that can be produced in a year, what am I missing?

I understand being safe and being careful about not ruining the game with too much too fast, but just mines and starbases, really?

I understand other mini-expansions are in the works but at this pace and with this amount of content, with all the testing time that has to be done for each, it seems like it will take years before a single proper expansion is released, and even then maybe too minimal. And before someone suggests it, I will not be buying it so I can play a beta just so I can know what is in it before it comes out, kind of defeats the purpose. As it is, it sounds nigh unto horse armor.

Can anybody point me to a feature set or share what else is in it for a years worth of time?

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Hmm, $5 for decals that make your horses look cooler, or $10 for Entrenchment with mines, starbases, anti-structure ships, new techs and upgrades.

Yeah, it's definitely the same thing. Don't bother

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hehe, I did come off a bit whiney, and yah the horse armor bit may have been a cheap shot.

But really I'd just like to hear some details.

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Anti-structure ships.

Weapon banks targeting multiple enemies.

upgrades to defense structures.

Upgrades changing meshes.

Unique starbases with a varied set of abilities, including phase disruption.

Unique mines for all and minelayers for Advent and Vasari.

Purple skybox.

New artifacts and planet bonuses.

More to come.

For the whole year, go take a look at the patches. Specifically, 1.1 and the graphical overhaul.

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Well, now that we're being serious The 1.1 graphical overhaul Kitkun's referring to was releasing higher resolution textures for a lot of units (notably capital ships), and re-doing some models entirely (mostly strike craft).

Kitkun summed up the expansion changes nicely. The thing about starbases and mines though is that it doesn't feel like you're just playing the old Sins with just a new "starbase" unit and a mine here and there. The game plays pretty differently, and, well, starbases are just really really cool.

I guess if you just look at the feature list it's smaller than most full expansions offer, sure, but it also costs a third or most of them. And yes it's been a year, but there was a lot of patch support - 1.1 especially was a major patch and some of its things (like re-texturing, adding new UI elements) are commonly held off for expansions.

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Thanks guys.

Upgrades changing meshes??? Graphical meshes?

The idea on the game playing quite differently is nice, I just hope the AI knows how to utilize the new features and strategies as well. Usually AI is an afterthought in post release.

Yeah I enjoyed the patches, but I don't really include them in the expansion concept, afterall they really were patches, but regardless Stardock weren't sleeping for a year I get it and I did enjoy the patches.

Still a bit slow IMO for an expansion, I doubt these 3 micro's will be the last. Hopefully the other micro's testing begins shortly after this release.

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Upgrades changing meshes??? Graphical meshes?

Yeah, they made it possible for buildings and ships (including capitals) to change appearance after research/upgrades. Like, starbases start with only 1 weapon, but if you do the beams upgrade for the TEC base, big beam turrets appear on its corners. The normal defensive structures also get their appearance changed with the new defensive upgrades - TEC Gauss cannons get missile racks, for example.

Everything else now has the ability to, so modders can take full advantage of it, but other buildings and capitals don't use it in vanilla.

The idea on the game playing quite differently is nice, I just hope the AI knows how to utilize the new features and strategies as well. Usually AI is an afterthought in post release.

It's not perfect yet, but it's getting there. It builds starbases and it upgrades them, so there's never a shortage of cool stuff to blow up. It was over-using mines too much in beta 1, and for beta 2 they temporarily disabled Advent/Vasari AI mine placing because they're changing how they're deployed.

I mentioned the patches because, well, Ironclad (the developer) is an 11 man team (9 when they made the game). They committed rather significant resources on patches, and didn't really kick into gear on the expansion until late summer/early fall

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you should just read the inital patch notes for entrenchment and the 3 following patches.

apart from loads of balancing changes you will find hundreds of changes and additions to gameplay, graphics, modding and engine optimization.

the list is huge.

you can't just reduce it to starbases and mines.

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I hope they release an overall changelist for Entrenchment detailing all the changes.

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Everyone above me is right, it's not JUST Starbases and Mines... The game plays completely differently. They also added new types of grav wells, new techs and so on. For $10 (even during the economopocalypse) if you're serious enough to play vanilla Sins, you may as well just buy entrenchment and NOT get McDonalds tomorrow.

The beta has been awesome... pretty much Entrenchment is out, it's just not totally finished.

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Quick question. If i buy and install Entrenchment, is there an option to just play the vanilla SINS? I would hate to think, I have to do the whole uninstall/reinstall.

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For the final release you will be able to. Right now with the beta you'll have to make a copy of Sins if you want to play vanilla.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

And before someone suggests it, I will not be buying it so I can play a beta just so I can know what is in it before it comes out, kind of defeats the purpose.

It does?

I've never understood this ridiculous mentality. The game isn't broken, and it's not changing very much. Effectively the Entrenchment Beta *IS* the final product. All that's left is balance tweaking, which is no different from balance patches released for 'finished' games.

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Blair Fraser

Join Date 10/2006

+292

Quoting Kitkun,

reply 8

I hope they release an overall changelist for Entrenchment detailing all the changes.

I'll be making a list of the most important changes, otherwise it would be too darn large.

This isn't true. During both the Sins beta and the Entrenchment beta we made significant changes to a lot of stuff based on feedback. For example the difference between beta 1 and beta 2.5 is huge (though admittedly not as large as some of the changes in the main game but we had much more time). I would also expect some significant additions and changes between 2.5 and 3 (coming soon).

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Quoting Uranium - 235,

reply 12

quoting postAnd before someone suggests it, I will not be buying it so I can play a beta just so I can know what is in it before it comes out, kind of defeats the purpose.
It does?

I've never understood this ridiculous mentality. The game isn't broken, and it's not changing very much. Effectively the Entrenchment Beta *IS* the final product. All that's left is balance tweaking, which is no different from balance patches released for 'finished' games.

that really depends on the stage. entrenchment beta 1 was far from 'like the final product' and neither was original sins beta 3 and 4. of course now it is.

edit: damn, the boss beat me to it. but beta 3 soon? with significant changes? how cool is that. meanwhile, I'll go back to enjoying 2.5. keep doing the same awesome job you have been in the past.

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I've been getting up to speed on Sins with vanilla...am I wasting my time? Should I just get entrenchment now? ($ is not the issue...I was just waiting for the finished product)

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anyone?

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depends on what you want. play the vanilla for a bit and if you see that you want more defense content, entrenchment is the way to go. I'd even recommend it anyway, though I can't say anything definitive until the final release. it's promising, that's for sure. if you plan on going online, well there is a debate on whether entrenchment makes games longer, but then the devs said there is something to help that.

it certainly does change the game a bit and the starbase are unlike anything in the game. I for one think they are really, really cool. plus, you get some other stuff like defense busters, various upgrades to defensive tec, new planet boni and artifacts, mines.

bottom line: if you're unsure, play vanilla until release, get more info on the final version and decide if you liked sins enough to want more of the same. think about what you would want improved and compare to what the expansion offers.

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actually, I'm getting it no matter what. Just been getting used to the game while waiting for its release. Reason I'm avoiding buying it now, is I dont want to get used to something and having it changed on me (which is what a beta is all about...).

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Hey guys I don't quite understand the diffrent weapon banks.

How is it going to be different from regular Sins? Don't capital ships fire at different targets at the same time already? Can you guys explain it to me?

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Quoting Annatar11,

reply 6

there's never a shortage of cool stuff to blow up

And there we have the quote of the week! heh.

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I would also expect some significant additions and changes between 2.5 and 3 (coming soon).

Aha! He admits it there is a three! I was right! I was right!

Ok back on topic! Are the weapon banks only an upgrade to entrenchment or to vinella as well?

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Hey guys I don't quite understand the diffrent weapon banks.

How is it going to be different from regular Sins? Don't capital ships fire at different targets at the same time already? Can you guys explain it to me?

They fire at different targets, but with different weapons. For an easy example, the Kol only ever hits 1 target with each shot of its beams. The weapon banks changes mean you can make it hit multiple targets with the same shot of the weapon so with the Kol that means you could make its beams hit 2-3 targets at the same time if you want to (the capitals were left at 1-target cap) and each target would take full damage.

This basically means Starbases can pew pew lots of targets at once, which looks cool and actually makes them powerful.

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+ hundred of hours of work at IronClad to chase down bugs!!!

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Upgrades changing meshes??? Graphical meshes?

Yeah, they made it possible for buildings and ships (including capitals) to change appearance after research/upgrades. Like, starbases start with only 1 weapon, but if you do the beams upgrade for the TEC base, big beam turrets appear on its corners.

I'd pay $30 if those turn out to be proper turrets and proper child objects.

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