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Sokar468
Sokar468
Join Date 05/2008
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So I finally got around to playing Multiplayer

April 28, 2009 4:18:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've always been critical of multiplayer without ever having played a single game, so I decided it was time to educate myself and give it a go.

 

I must say, multiplayer turned out to be what I feared it to be: a race to kill other players using the same combination of units.  For Advent, that is Progenitor mothership with Illuminators and Drone Hosts; for TEC, Marza and LOTS of LRMs; Vasari, colony cap ship (I don't know the names of any of the Vasari caps) and LOTS of Assailants.

 

This style of gameplay is not why I fell in love with Sins in the first place.  I like the leisurely expansion of your empire and taking the time and effort to spread your culture and research all the technologies.  I also like epic fleet battles with a wide variety of units.

 

That being said, a good game with people who are team players in a 3v3 or 4v4 match is great fun.  Coordinating attacks, going all econ to "feed" allies with resources, grabbing and holding chokepoints with allies, and the such is worth a look by anyone who is apprehensive of multiplay.

 

So I'm sure everything I just said is hardly new news to anyone here, but I am glad I did try multiplayer; it's just not for me.  If I want to rush opponents, I will wait till Starcraft II.

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Sokar468
sawakaki
Join Date 01/2009
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Reply #1 April 28, 2009 5:40:00 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I agree with you.  It's fun to team up with a friend at play against 6 or 8 AI's, but I'm just not into the multi-player style.

I also have to say it's nice to hear from someone who actually tried multi-player and didn't like it instead of just bashing it with no expeirience.

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Sokar468
TheRezonator
Join Date 12/2008
+27
Reply #2 April 28, 2009 9:04:31 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Quoting sawakaki,
reply 1
I agree with you.  It's fun to team up with a friend at play against 6 or 8 AI's, but I'm just not into the multi-player style.

I also have to say it's nice to hear from someone who actually tried multi-player and didn't like it instead of just bashing it with no expeirience.

hear hear!

and well done to you sokar for actually trying it. i admit i had the same fears, and now ill definitly think twice before wasting my time doing MP

thanks for the info

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Sokar468
Sokar468
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #3 April 28, 2009 9:28:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting TheRezonator,
reply 2


and well done to you sokar for actually trying it. i admit i had the same fears, and now ill definitly think twice before wasting my time doing MP

thanks for the info

 

I wouldn't exactly call it a waste of time.  You learn some things about the game that you wouldn't otherwise, such as rapid expansion and taking a minimalist approach to defeating opponents.  Whether or not you use that new info is entirely up to you.

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Sokar468
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #4 April 28, 2009 10:04:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

You may try Large FFA's for longer games in multiplayer, or get two big teams to play on Areolian Sector, those tend to last awhile. I wouldn;t ever call multiplayer leisurely for sure but, if you play a lot of free for alls, you tend to find out what techs are truly worth investing in. However, the longer the game, the wider variety of tactics and strategies people use. I find it more intersting than fighting AI who uses the same strategies over and over. I mean I've never seen a computer build 12 Novaliths and wipe out entire star systems, or come at me with 2 Marzas, 3 Kols and nothing but Hoshis, Cielos and Flak Frigates.

It's true though, most single star team games tend to see whos better at the same strategy, but thats where You improve your micromanagement skills, at least thats where I train my own.

As far as MP goes, when you first start out it's very different, and you'll likely get beaten pretty bad a few times, but if you stick with it and learn from the other players you can get pretty good, and in the end its much more satisfying crushing a human than a computer. At least for me.

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Sokar468
top vasari
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #5 April 28, 2009 10:12:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

hear hear!

and well done to you sokar for actually trying it. i admit i had the same fears, and now ill definitly think twice before wasting my time doing MP

thanks for the info

don't take sokars opinion as a reason to not play multiplayer. I really enjoy MP it is fun competing against real people other than fighting against an ai that has predictable stratagies. im not saying sokar is wrong but it is just his opinion.

dont dismiss MP before trying it. if you try to start playing games with "the pros" you will defenatly be scared away from MP but try to play a game with people at your skill lvl that way it is fun for everyone.

MP games are just a race to kill the other player because you cant save and finish the game later. you have to finish a game that you started.

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Sokar468
Hack78
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #6 April 28, 2009 10:42:43 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I must say, multiplayer turned out to be what I feared it to be: a race to kill other players using the same combination of units. For Advent, that is Progenitor mothership with Illuminators and Drone Hosts; for TEC, Marza and LOTS of LRMs; Vasari, colony cap ship (I don't know the names of any of the Vasari caps) and LOTS of Assailants.

If you aren't good enough to stop this combination, a player will not need to bring out something more advanced to kill you. If I can kill someone will a gun, why do I need a tank? If I can kill them with a tank, why use a nuke? It is this reason you probably saw this. That plus the fact that you engage in combat so soon that you don't have time to research HCs and support etc... before you engage.

If you play with the best players as Top Vassari says (and I have played with him a few times so I know he has the experience to back this up), you won't have fun as you are out of your league. The pace is also fast. And the reason he gives is correct - you have to finish in a session. There is also another reason why games are fast. There aren't 9 AI's running to slow the game down!!!! Cut that out of the equation and the speed is much faster. I have played with/against a number of newbs in MP and they all say the same - how much faster it all is.

So don't give up just because it is different. Adapt. Learn. Improve. Make them use something other then XYZ unit spam...

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Sokar468
Sokar468
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #7 April 28, 2009 10:59:52 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Hack78,
reply 6

If you aren't good enough to stop this combination, a player will not need to bring out something more advanced to kill you. If I can kill someone will a gun, why do I need a tank? If I can kill them with a tank, why use a nuke? It is this reason you probably saw this. That plus the fact that you engage in combat so soon that you don't have time to research HCs and support etc... before you engage.

If you play with the best players as Top Vassari says (and I have played with him a few times so I know he has the experience to back this up), you won't have fun as you are out of your league. The pace is also fast. And the reason he gives is correct - you have to finish in a session. There is also another reason why games are fast. There aren't 9 AI's running to slow the game down!!!! Cut that out of the equation and the speed is much faster. I have played with/against a number of newbs in MP and they all say the same - how much faster it all is.

So don't give up just because it is different. Adapt. Learn. Improve. Make them use something other then XYZ unit spam...

 

I played games with allies against other human players, and the counters my allies used for the XYZ unit spams I listed were the XYZ unit spams I listed.  Every now and then an Iconus or Hoshiko appeared on the scene, but they were rare (due to their crystal consumption, I assume).

 

Like Top Vasari said, it's not so much giving up on multiplayer as to a personal opinion on what's fun in Sins.  In fact, I will probably take more stabs at multiplayer once I have more free time this summer.  I would like to keep exploring this aspect of Sins and see if I can enjoy it somehow.  So far, though, I am content with leisurely single player games.

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Sokar468
Hack78
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #8 April 29, 2009 12:47:46 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have seen games where there are HEAPS of hoshikos - the players you played with probably didn't understand their true value....

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Sokar468
Sokar468
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #9 April 29, 2009 1:05:23 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Hack78,
reply 8
I have seen games where there are HEAPS of hoshikos - the players you played with probably didn't understand their true value....

 

Every player understands their value.  They either simply weren't necessary, session didn't last long enough for there to be many of them, or crystal was short.

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Sokar468
TheRezonator
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #10 April 29, 2009 1:16:24 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

okay, let me clarify, i not totally off MP, just MP games vs people i dont know. im actually playing a MP game now with a friend i met on these forums, not so bad... actually got our ass handed to us by a couple of hard AI's which was surprising becuase i can usually beat 4 hard AI's by my lonesome...

 

so yeah, all i was saying is i know that MP can be rough, and im not interested in playing against so-called pros, for the exact reasons sokar specified, but with friends, i realise its a rewarding experience

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Sokar468
MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #11 April 29, 2009 1:30:59 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I must say, multiplayer turned out to be what I feared it to be: a race to kill other players using the same combination of units. For Advent, that is Progenitor mothership with Illuminators and Drone Hosts; for TEC, Marza and LOTS of LRMs; Vasari, colony cap ship (I don't know the names of any of the Vasari caps) and LOTS of Assailants.

Its also cause you and who you have played with might not have the experience to counter correctly. If someone came at me with lrf you would see me build lots of fighters not lrf.I play tec all the time and hardly ever use lrf.Early game is more predictible cause as they said there isnt time to research all the ships. Mid game is where things get interesting. You never know what your opponent will do. This is where all the diff strategies and ships come into play. It gets very exciting. Thats why I like mp. Sp is so predictible. The ai does the same thing everytime. Always builds sb and builds crappy fleets. Doesnt micro its caps at all. The pace is faster but you will get use to it. I use to be like you. I didnt like all the fast pace rushing but since I have played sins mp is slow now.

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Sokar468
Swordsalmon
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #12 April 29, 2009 1:43:51 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

What size map were you playing? Obviously smaller maps take much faster, but I've seen Medium Random maps take up to two hours, which gives plenty of time to plan out an empire and an army. I haven't actually seen any early-rushes with the exception of the typical Assailant attack.

Try giving it another chance. Multiplayer is indeed much faster, but it compresses a lot of needless time away to get straight into development.

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