I edited the lancer idea to include drawbacks...  More than likely, I didn't update it until you were already typing this...  Simply put, I did incorporate a severe detriment when using the axial gun as well as some strategies...

I also agree with your comments about AM, range, etc.  HP wise, I was thinking the same thing about health...  I don't know if you could actually create a forward shielding ability, but it would be nice if you could...  I don't have entrenchment so I don't know about the Vasari starbase, but if it has what we are looking for, that would help...

Resource costs are good, but I'd raise the credits to 1800...  Aside from that, I'd say that your suggestions are good.

Oh, and look back at the DPS things I wrote... I'm sure you'll have something to say about them...

Ok.. now we can explain it in lore...

And yeah it is, but at the same time, I don't know...  They are supposed to be the equivalent of snipers...  Perhaps I could decrease the DPS by keeping the DPS the same but increasing cooldown...  That ought to work...  And yeah.. these ships to need a command crew...

Its just that I don't really want to nerf them that much because with some microing, you can completely neutralize the, but then that may just be me as I practically do battles in the first person...  Maybe it just seems too simple because I micro constantly, but oh well...

everything sounds good... i like your ideas...

i just noticed though that you often avoid using missiles in your TEC designs?

and also, just an idea, why dont you replace one of the weapons types on one or both of the Advent ships with the psionic surge ability from the starbase? they dont use it very much so i thought it would be a nice opportunity.

lastly, im wondering what strengths these ships would have? you know like how LRF is effective vs LF and Carriers and Fighters are effective vs LRF etc etc, so would the destroyer be more effective vs say, HC, LF, LRF and Carriers? i mean, i can understand both ships being effective vs 'everything', but idn, do you think it should be 'less effective' against capital ships or something?

but yeah, your ideas sound great so far, keep it up

@Rezon:  Well... its not that I avoid it, the Gartel has them and the colonizer (a third one to go with the destroyer and lancer) will be loaded with them...

I don't have entrenchment...

@ Eadtaes: That sounds about right...

Astrom I had an idea of having somehtign like looked like a Tri-Arm on a mini nova cannon and a kodiac Sova style.

Nolane a sort of mix between a lum and a starfish. Sounds crazy yes but looks wickedly cool.

Rashnak I have alot of trouble with this oen to. Since Passe Beams are kinda lame. I have and Idea if is used a Wave cannon instead. I would make something that would have the general shape of this "<" alot much cooler.

Igotta go now dunno if i'll reply again for 2 days. You see the nova it has 2 boom that accelerate the projectile. Gonan build it kinda ly that but with 3 booms.

Also reason I create  anew weapon on it is to represent the lore as in TEC toke a hull put 2 big guns of existign technologie on it and called it a ship. Also since a railgun and a laser cannon have nothign in common it would look odd if 1 gun server both purpace.

Yeah I'll draw it, it will look nice you will see. The advent one is also geting better. Vasari is odd.

Obviously the central tower is the bridge and the rear is the engine area.  On the sides are the two light autocannons.  Towards the front, I think you can identify the primary gun...  You can also see the four containment field projectors surrounding the barrel.  Around that, you have four pillars, each wielding three autocannons, thus accounting for the four heavy autocannon batteries on the front.  Simply put, don't get in front of this thing or you will die...

As for the revamped damage:

Fore:

Axial Laser: 100 damage, 2 second cooldown (50 DPS)

Heavy Autocannon Batteries: 30 damage each, 2 second cooldown (15 DPS each, 60 DPS total)

Total Forward DPS: 110 (or five HC's)

Port/Starboard:

Light Autocannons: 7 damage each, 1 second cooldown (7 DPS each, 14 DPS per side)

Total Flanking DPS: 28

Now, the side cannons fire independently and so track different enemies, whereas the forward guns lock onto the same target...

For this reason, only the forward guns are all that much of a threat...  Combine this with their immense range and you might understand why you don't want to be at the front of this thing...  Virtually any cap could flank it into submission as its side cannons are extremely weak...  Illuminators could also do the same, as could bombers as it has no self-defense against such an attack.

That said, remember the abilities...

Maximum Firepower: Increases damage of all weapons by 100%/120%/130% for five seconds.  Costs 70/65/60 AM.

Focus Fire: increases damage done by friendly ships within a radius of 1200 by 10%/20%/30% for 30 seconds.  Costs 80/90/100 AM.

Railgun: Activates axial cannon and deals 350/900/1650 damage to the target.  Costs 120 AM 

Now, by combining these abilities in such a way, you can deal massive damage:

Step 1: Engage the enemy.

Step 2: Target their highest level cap ship.

Step 3: Fire with normal weapons.

Step 4: Activate maximum firepower.  (This causes damage dealt to be about 100 DPS after factoring mitigation.  This lasts for five seconds.)

Step 5: Wait for it to use itself up.  By the end, you will have dealt about 250 extra damage

Step 6: Activate Railgun which deals about 750 damage.

Step 7: Wait for the detriment to wear off and focus your fire on said ship.

Step 8: Use Focus Fire, thus increasing the damage done to the ship significantly.  In short, the targeted ship (unless a Kol) dies very quickly (because Kols just won't die...).

hey, golly gee whiz, thanks for icluding me, you guys started talking in technical terms, and im not much use there.

i like the design (i have no creativity for original ideas, the things i day dream about i just pull from other Sci-Fi's and slap them together, so well done in the first instance)

however, im thinking... the locations of the flanking autocannons... they dont seem to really fit with TEC design style... i was thinking, instead of having them evenly spaced on the hull, maybe put some sort of "swept-back wing" on the sides, starting from where the forward AC is and ending where the read AC is. then, instead of putting the weapons flat on the side like now, mount them on the top and bottom surfaces of the wing (look at the Kol for a reference, it has AC's mounted much the same way above and below the hangar bay). i leave the specific details (like how angled should the wing be etc) to you, i just think it would match TEC design style better than presently. also, what is the maximum firing arc of the flanking autocannons? for example, 180 degrees? so it can fire at targets directly behind and in front of the ship? (though having a blind spot right behind the engine etc)

also, about the weapons... is there a reason you chose autocannons specifically? like do they do a particular type of damage or something? if so, can this value be attributed to another weapon graphic? i was thinking about the Kol again, the info card states its armed with a laser, but the only laser looking thing on the Kol is that three-barrelled fireball cannon looking thing mounted on the outside edge of the hangar bay...

So, i was thinking, take the graphic from that weapon (as in the weapons fire graphic... whether it uses the same gun design is up to you), increase the refire rate so it fires about 3 shots per second (or whatever you think will equal the current DPS value), and replace the 4 forward heavy autocannons batteries with 4 of these 'laser' batteries. it can and should do the exact same damage and whatever else, im just talking about an aesthetic change. it should make it look more powerful in my opinion.

alternatively, i was originally thinking about changing the flanking light autocannons to the normal looking TEC lasers (like the ones on cobalts etc) again, it should do the same damage etc as the light autocannons, just have a different graphic. the idea was just to vary the appearance of the weapons fire on the ship, i find looking at just one type of weapon, especially when there is more than one weapon bank or multiple firing arcs, very boring.

also, the main gun is just a wee bit too long, if you reduce it by the length of the inside surface of the pillars (the surface the AC's are mounted on) it should fix it. i know the logic is that its a massive railgun/gauss cannon, and therefore needs a long barrel, but we could just say the barrel extends further inside the ship.

wait, i just re-read some previous posts... are we deciding on a railgun or super-charged laser?

and no, no skins really needed, im happy with what you've done so far, well done. as for the other designs, if you have spare time, sure go for it, but it might be easier for you and less time consuming if you work on one design at a time, get it 'perfect', then move onto the next one. it might also help with keeping your ideas in line, rather than jumping around with different numbers and designs and lore and whatnot

one last thing... i noticed you said the main gun will have to fire normally, and will only be a "superweapon" when the ability is activated... well, i was thinking, why not make it like the Kol Gauss ability, or Marza Seige Planet or Radiation bomb, in that all three have seperate weapon mounts which do nothing until the respective ability activates... if i understand you right, and you want the main gun to fire a standard laser, then the super laser when the ability activates... lore could explain this by saying the weapon is overcharged to inflict the extra damage...

but would an idea be to mount 2 heavy lasers on the front of the wings close to the fuselage? make them act like a single bank so they can only fire at one target at a time, and give them the same damage etc as now.

sorry if that sounds confusing but its late where i am and im getting tired so...

Im a little confused

You are saying that the weapons on the left hand side of the ship all have to do the same amount/type of damage? or that you cant have like a heavy and a light autocannon both on the left side of the ship, but you can have a heavy autocannon and a light laser?

okay, no problem with the missiles, i think they would look weird on this ship anyway. i can live with autocannons on the sides if the forward main guns (not the main cannon) are lasers or especially the fireball cannon thingy the Kol has, or, alternatively, if you have autocannons as forward main guns and standard lasers as flanking weapons.

then you say you want the flanking weapons and forward main guns the same just because you say so... okay, well, i guess ill have to live with it, but no cookie for you! jks =P

as for the main gun graphic, is it possible to steal effects from other races or even other games? i can see a modified Railgun blast from CnC fitting well, if not, maybe a modified Clensing Brilliance shot that moves nealy instantly, tinge it blue-ish maybe? and by the time the front of the 'blast' reaches the target, the trail near the ship should already be fading... if any of thats possible of course, thats just how i see it in my mind.

again im confused, so are you now saying the main weapon part of the ship wont be used until the ability is used? So... from the original design, we had Forward Lasers firing from the main gun barrel, Forward heavy AC firing from the pillars surrounding the main gun, and 4 flanking AC firing from the sides of the ship... So from where do the lasers fire? from where the AC batteries used to be? so where do those weapons move to? it sounds to my like you've cut out a weapon somewhere...

sorry, maybe im missing something fundamental, past my betime and all, you know.

however, glad to be of service with the creative ideas bit and yeah, i understand the ship styles, i wasnt talking about thin wings, more like big blocky things, most likely stubby, just to give some extra surfaces to mount weapons.

Fair enough. I understand now. One more question, can you have a Heavy Laser and a Heavy Autocannon?

Also, about the Clensing Brilliance, i meant if you could take the graphics file for that ability, tweak it a bit, and tell the mod to use that effect when the main weapon fires. Maybe instead of the beam moving from ship to target instantly, you can tweak it so it moves a bit slower (though not by much), given the distances between ship and targets. I was just thinking of some total conversion mods ive seen that make weapons look entirely different, which is why i thought it was possible.

As for the two weapon types firing in a certain direction, what was the issue here? i thought we had two light autocannons or lasers (whichever one we decide to go with in the end)  firing left and right respectively, and 4 banks of heavy autocannons/fireball cannons firing forward, plus 2 lasers (i assume they were heavy) that used to be fired from the main gun but now seem to have disappeared?

Ill try to start from the beginning: at first, we had 4 flanking light autocannons, 4 main forward firing autocannons, and what i assume to be a heavy laser (read below)

Thats what i was saying before, if you move the above weapon to the front of the wings close to the fuselage, and keep what are currently the main AC batteries where they are, you keep all the weapons, their damage class and firing arc etc etc, and keep the main gun part of the ship free for firing the railgun blast.

or did i miss the part where you axed the above laser?

I was thinking, keep the Forward Autocannons as Autocannons by all means, but if you change the firing effect to the Kol fireball cannon, and then put standard looking Heavy Lasers (maybe make the laser effect itself longer? gives the appearance of being more powerful), or Autocannons if you like, on the front of the wings, firing forward. that should work in the code, keep all the current damage values etc, and just look sweet!

also, another question, what is the native size of weapon firing arcs? so like, can they fire on targets within a 180 degree arc, or a 40 degree, or a 300 degree? and if its adjustable, what are you intending.

The Kol Gauss Railgun ability has an effect, but its basically an oval-ish white blob that is fired and moves quickly to the target... you usually dont see it unless you are zoomed right it. Thats why i was thinking of something big and noticeable, like Cleansing Brilliance for the effect... Actually, i just thought about it, what if you take the Marza Radiation bomb effect, make it blue (or blue-ish red? or white?) elongate it a bit, and increase its travelling speed by 90-100%... that could be good...

Last thing, there is a dynamic battle system mod that makes larger ships like frigs and cruisers move around while they fight, rather than sitting still and shooting. would you consider implementing this in the mod as well? i think it would be very cool, especially considering the upgrades we will be making to Caps and the creation of destroyers, but if yes, then we have to take enemy movement into account for the main weapons of each lancer. The Advent beam weapon not so much, as i imagine it travels pretty fast, but the Vasari pulse laser and TEC Railgun may definitly need to be looked at to make sure they hit their targets...

phew, i think thats all. i guess its good though, its probably a good idea to be on the same page

First off, EadTaes, welcome back.

Second, I realise its a rough draft, but i cant say its all that appealing, as a whole.

Individual components however are quite interesting.

To me, it looks like the drive section at the back is similar to the Kols (why i keep mentioning that ship idn, so sorry), and it looks quite nice.

Also, the thinner mid-section is also nice (again, resembles the Kol) especially with the larger drive section at the back.

The front and forward middle section look a bit bleh...

However, the gun on top is an interesting touch, and it made me realise something.

In all reality, the TEC may not have built a new ship for the lancer, simply taken a large mass driver, and strapped in onto an existing ship, something with alot of scaffolding, like a construction or repair ship think of a very long ship with engines at the back and bridge, crew quarters etc etc, at the front, with the two sections joined by a very long 'peice' or pieces of scaffolding... the Mass Driver would be mounted on the scaffolding, with various weapons mounted wherever there is space.

i realise it would look very ugly, but, like Volt said, the TEC need to look blocky and mass produced, which is often synonymous with ugly.

anyway, im going to state it now that unless someone wants to scuttle their project and go with this one, im fine with a completely new ship (after all, they've started building Kols from scratch, so why not some new exclusively military ships?

idn, i think if the two designs were merged somehow, it could look good. Volt's design could have some of the cylinder under where the wings will go removed, make it look like someone carved a bit out, and maybe have the hull taper down a bit from behind the bridge until the drive section... could look good.

ultimately, though, i guess its up to you guys