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I'm going to be coming back to edit this. I feel it's a little jumbled as is, but I've been fighting the fact that bringing in charts to the forum's program seems to be difficult. I'll be fixing a lot of little stuff later.

Hopefully though, you see my message.

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thanks for finally posting this i was wondering after hearing about your test, what the results were.

im surprised that Vasari HCs dont even beat illums, that is broken, even without repulse illums can counter what "counters" them.

_|~Uber

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Jaw dropping; I knew enforcers were kinda cruddy, but this is unreal. Even before their awe-inspiring synergies, illuminators are still beating down their supposed counters.

While I'm not going to comment on your exact numbers, I do agree something needs to be done about this. This is why every Vasari player ends up massing carriers in the long run; it's their only unit that actually is competitive with faction counterparts.

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I can hear him already. Advent and Lums aren't OPed. Lums are a tier 3 unit they should be that strong.

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For think you can do a match up with Kodiac?

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I agree that if your findings are correct, this needs immidiate change! I have been finiding Illums ridiculous lately. Mostly due to the carrier nerfs. I feel that Enforcers should beat Illums with equal fleet supply.

Also I should note before Subverter neutering, a clump of Illums would catch a regular beat down form vasari player using the magic bullet subverters!

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guess im still stuck rushing to carriers against an advent player, vasari have absolutley no other hard counter.

Now a real problem would be if illums beat kodiaks or destras.

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Sorry folks. I had to move the post. It's been reposted. For some reason, I couldn't read the replys, so I had to repost elsewhere. I don't know why, but the forum's program got really wierd, so I just skipped the headache and reposted. Same post, just has *repost* in the name.

Oh, and Top? I think Illums do, or at least it's a close battle. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Illums beat both kodies and destras.

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