Chasbo, I'm nether an Obama hater nor a Republican, but in all honesty currently health insurance is essentially 1) Gov't. (VA, Medicare, Medicaid).  2) Private  3) Employer provided.

In the case of the Military, and 1), this equates to the Employer based since it is, basically, an untaxed benefit. That's how FEHB pretty much equates with that. It shouldn't continue after employment terminates anymore than with any other job.

Yet another reason why HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM is necessary.

I broke Forums?  

Please don't rat me out to Jafo.

That helps. I haven't studied the system. In Canada, if you're born, you get a health card. I know that the proposals aren't a universal system like Canada's, so there will still be a lot of people who will remain uncovered. It might not make any difference in Karen's or kona's situation.

Government based healthcare is an open checkbook. A corporation has more reason to contain costs than a government ever would, and that's the way these government schemes always work in the real world. The costs will be shifted from the insurance pool to the taxpayer.

Au contraire. They are very interested in entering peoples homes and workplaces. That is very clear if you read the act passed by the HELP senate committee. Aside from that, that's their style. Check out the latest snitch e-mail fiasco perpetrated by the White House.

It's actually about taking over the health care industry. It's being done under the guise of reforming insurance. They have every intention of introducing a single payer system, and they will start that process by creating onerous conditions for the insurance companies, such as requiring them to provide insurance to people with pre-existing conditions, and not allowing the companies to charge more for people that smoke, for instance. That is in the proposed legislation.

I know what you're getting at, but there are honest differences of opinion among the participants here. No politician is making us argue about the different understandings we have, and different they are. We can't just wish them away.

Correct....that and the CEO's fat salary/benefit package. On whose back? The shmendrick who bought a policy. Thus, we already have rationing.

Enough. I'll never convince anyone. They only become more firmly entrenched...can't hack it.

Thanks...but you should have seen my first efforts. I caused poor Fuzzy to have dreadful bouts of retching. Po' will probably never speak to me again, starkers, angus1949 and Zubaz hope to meet me on a dimly lit street or even darker alley. Most just ignore me hoping I'll go away soon, or sooner. Mostly they say, "I like your approach. Now let's see about your departure." or "The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist." and "You sound reasonable...Time to up my medication." also, "I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter."

So, all in all another success story for the "Eff Up Fairy".

With April coming up soon it might be a good idea for people to serioiusly check out this website  http://www.losthorizons.com/index.html and get educated about how your getting ripped off. And NO...it's no tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theory stuff. Here's your chance to stop bitching about how your taxes are spent...waiting for "tax reform"...LMAO...and do something about it. Or keep paying...they would really love it if you did...no really...they would.

WebGizmos, I'm not saying that what the website claims is wrong, or that it's a scam.  I watched "America: From Freedom to Fascism" and I'm well aware of the fact that income taxes are illegal.  But I also followed the case of Ed and Elaine Brown, and I don't want to end up like them!  They were right not to pay their taxes, but that didn't stop an onslaught of various government organizations to hold them siege in their own home, and then haul them off to jail, and forcing them to pay what the IRS says they owed, plus interest and penalities.

I can no more stand up against the IRS than I can standup against the Mafia, (for they run the same game by the same rules!).  I just don't have the kind of muscle that it takes to buck the power holders.  It's an illusion that we live in a just world, and that the United States is an honest country.  All one has to do is look at how the United States was BORN, to realize this is a con game of the highest order.

If you have the intestinal fortitude to put yourself out there along side people like Wesley Snipes, and the Browns, I will respect you, but please don't call me to bail you out of jail, because I'm doing everything I can just to tread water.  If, on the other hand, you know of some massive angry mob, where I can protest anonymously with a group of other people who are just as discontented and batshit crazy as I am, let me know about it, because THAT event is on the top of my bucket list.

John, I thought you lived in Canada -- don't they have government health care up there?  Why do you care about what Acorn does here?  I'm totally confused about your interest in this.

As for "Individual freedom is a valuable commodity. Demanding that people live in a proscribed manner in the name of health care costs is no less oppressive than any other excuse." -- I guess in this situation to me, at least it seems reasonable -- we have so many freedoms' being suppressed which have nothing to do with the good of the people, but simply a process to guarantee the maximum amount of power and cash get funneled into the prescribed hands, for no good reason, I find it refreshing an altruistic purpose would be offered up for a change.

I understand where your coming from Karen. The problem is that there are tons of sites out there all claiming to get the IRS off your back with one hair brained scheme after the other...I've seen lots of them. And a lot of well intention people followed bad advice and paid the price.

But losthorizons.com doesn't make any claims...it only educates you in the "Rule of law" according to the IRS tax code and the Constitution and then you can either choose to learn and understand what its telling you and put it into practice or you continue to pay taxes you don't owe.

And I know what you mean about being poor...I used to be able to at least say I'm reaching up to touch bottom...but I can't even see bottom anymore...which is exactly why I won't be giving them anymore money that doesn't belong to them.Just read the site Karen...it cost nothing to learn by reading...and then maybe as you get a better understanding of what the "Rule of law" actually is you might just get the courage to "abide" by the law...think about that.

I know there's a lot to read on that site...but you owe it to yourself to read it...I've been on it for the past week and haven't even put a dent in it...but it's worth the time.

"I am a revolutionist by birth, reading, and principle. I am always on the side of the revolutionists because there never was a revolution unless there were some oppressive and intolerable conditions against which to revolt."
~ Mark Twain ~

"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
~ Mark Twain ~

They end up discriminating against certain groups of people like smokers, the overweight and the elderly in order to cut costs.

Really? Could you show me when that happened and where...be specific please.

Just something I saw in the news about the National Health service in England. I might look it up, but probably not. These are the kinds of things you see from time to time in the news. Patients die from time to time in Canada because some waiting lists for some procedures are so long. Could I name you a single specific instance? No. I don't collect that kind of information.

Having to make a profit, that is earn more than you spend, is a great motivator that is missing in government-run enterprises.

Yeah. Some motivator. Denial for breast cancer treatment because you forgot you were treated for anxiety decades before? Or for acne? No, their yachts sail on a sea of blood. I know because I quit a job at ****** because they asked me to find ways to deny claims.

Do you really think that those kinds of decisions aren't made by clerks in government offices wherever there is nationalized health care? It isn't free. There isn't an unlimited supply of money available for health care anywhere on the planet, and those kinds of horrible decisions confront any entity that has to pay for it. It's a sad fact of life. Are bureacrats sailing on a sea of blood as well? Governments are notoriously inefficent; they use more money to get the same thing done than private enterprises do, and they bungle things more often. I can't fault you for wanting to treat everybody for everything; that's perfectly reasonable.


Perhaps you don't mind the Health Care Police compelling you to eat your vegetables, make you exercise, and stop doing things they don't like, but I detest the idea.

Demanding that people live in a proscribed manner in the name of health care costs is no less oppressive than any other excuse. I'd prefer to keep that at a minimum.


"They" aren't going to make you do anything. I've said that several times, but it doesn't make a dent. Actually, if knowing what is healthy you decide to do the unhealthy, you should pay a higher premium or not be covered for any negative outcome resulting from those things. That's the responsibility end of freedom. Saying that x number of times won't convince you, nor will x+1 times. 

You've said it several times, but you aren't writing the legislation, are you? I'm reading the legislation. I'm in agreement with you about paying a higher premium if you do obviously dangerous things; that's a reasonable proposition. Paying for your own health care is also the responsibility end of freedom as well, isn't it? I'm pretty sure I ran across a clause that says the companies can't charge you higher premiums. Paying higher premiums isn't the same as having the local community organizer knocking on your door and having the authority to dictate to you what you can and cannot do, is it?

It however irks me a bit you telling me which principles America was founded on, while being Canadian. Would knowing my first relative arrived here on the Mayflower, wrote the Mayflower Compact and was the first Governor of Plymouth Rock Colony deter you in the slightest, I wonder?

I may be Canadian, but I can also read. The Declaration Of Independence and the Bill Of Rights are not secret documents, nor are the writings of the fathers of independence, nor are history books or documentaries on television.

It's very interesting to know about your ancestor, and I hope you'll elaborate on that. I'm genuinely curious, but I can't imagine how that has any bearing on the subject. It doesn't add any weight to your arguments, and definitely won't deter me in the slightest.

So--tell us more about your famous ancestor. I think I'm not the only one who'd be interested in finding out.