I tried Steam once and ran from it as fast as I could. I currently have a copy of Counter Strike Source that I did not really like much but my lack of interest in this particular game pailed in comparison to the dislike I had for Steam do to the time it took to install and update thru the Steam UI. It was a nightmare that lasted several hours only to be disappointed by the game (just my personal opinion) not to mention I was only able to play 1 of the 3 demo type games that came with it because 2 of them never really finished updating and Steam would not let me play them till they were done.

What's even worse is that I can't even give the dam thing away because it's connected to me now thru the Steam account. Feels like having one of those worthless AOL CD's you get thru mail except I paid $20 for it.

Impulse has it's ups and downs with me. On the plus side having one central place to install all my Stardock stuff is great, but at the same time needing to have Impulse open to run any of the programs is having one too many screens oopen on my PC and one to many programs running. Of course I could simply search for the individual short cuts within the Start Up Menu but I wouldn't mind having the software give you the option of wanting a shortcut install on the desktop for those programs you use most often. For me it would be Tweak7 (before was TweakVista). I like using it when I game to close any unnecessary services and programs but find it  bit annoying that not only do I have to run Impulse first, but wait for it to login and then run Tweak7 amd then close both. Kinda a few extra steps I would really like to avoid. Of course the shortcut can fix that. All in all Impulse is pretty good.

As for GFWL, I had not heard of it till now and probably don't own any games with it though i could be wrong since my Call Of Duty World At War is a GFW game. Judging by the comments here I am not sure I want to even try it out.

I have dealt with several games that have GFWL. Some of the earlier ones like Fallout 3 weren't a big deal. It installs it's GFWL BS, but then you can forget about it. Never had to start it or login/create account to play the game. Note, that I don't play multiplayer so I never had to deal with that part.

Then along comes the likes of GTAIV. What a pain in the ass just to play a singleplayer game. You have to creat this account and that account and link something called a gamertag to someother unwanted BS known as Rockstar Social club.

I picked GTA up on the cheap, so it was more of an impulse buy without research. I would of passed had a I known the crap involved.

In a way though I think GTA saved me some PITA with Red Faction:Guerrilla and Batman Arkham Asylum. Since I already had the former setup, I avoided the same mess with the others. They just automatically login to GFWL upon start. Still a no-no for playing single player, but not unexpected nowadays. My main Beef now is that I have to totally turn off ZoneAlarm or most GFWL games won't start(even adding them to exceptions won't help).

Needless to say all the above games are now cracked to do away with as much of the GFWL BS as I can and still be able to play and I won't be spending money for anymore of that BS. You want to sell me a game fine. If you want to sell me a pile shit attached to it, then I'll just use other means to aquire it with BS removed.

GFWL promotes piracy, nice going MS.

Really? Normally I double-click the program on Impulse and say yes to install and I don't get another menu till it's done and thats only if it needs to reboot the system or something. It has never given me the basic options of an installation such as where to install, if I want shortcuts or not or anything like that. How do I get shortcuts, thru Impulse? There are still many features of Impulse I have not tried yet.

If you go into the Impulse settings, there are options to tell it where to install games, and to create a desktop icon, or not. Some things go into the Start Menu on their own (Demigod for example installs itself into the Games Explorer in Vista, there's no need to start Impulse to run it.)

Oh I didn't read it as anger towards stardock so much as anyone who has a problem with online gaming on a PC isn't worth noting. You already said it was more strongly worded than intended though.

Age of Empires I & II were awesome, but I wasn't behind a router with either of those. Later I tried II again and that was an issue or maybe it was Age of Mythology. One of those behaved very oddly behind a router to the point of a lot of boards covering the problem. And by behind a router i mean usually its me and two people behind the same router so they look like they are coming from the same IP address and some older gmes have an issue with that. I am far from a networking expert but that's the issue as we understood it.

With the way they are making 360 and PS3 as mini computers, they could easily start running into these issues too, I know. For now though, you give a kid a PS3, Xbox or even a Wii, it's very simple to set it up. PC's aren't even that easy to setup when you are working with an internal network, playing LAN.

All I can comment on GFWL is my impressions as I have never had to use it and have no desire to do so.

I just think that gaming on the PC is more complicated than it needs to be. It is not exactly user friendly. I mean I get a game, install it, spend time on the forums looking at all the possible issues with nVidia, Ati, maybe specific firewall issues, gotta figure out what ports to open or hell, just open them all. I own a Wii too, you know what I did to play Mario cart? I put in the disk, worked with that stupid friend's code system and just started playing. I prefer PC games for a lot of reason, but it was nice to just be able to buy and go.

Whenever there is a good title that has Games for Windows Live on it, I am installing it with very low expectations. Even with trepidation. Sure the game itself could probably be very good. But the Games for Windows Live experience for me is an extremely buggy one. I have yet to experience an install that went smoothly. Typically an update of GFWL fails, then you have to go to forums look for registry hacks, directory junctions and what not. I do not trust Microsofts testing for PC games at all. And then for them to certify an update it's a joke.  Or like with Gears of War (PC), the GFWL just went ahead and lost all my game saves, brilliant. After that I really didn't feel like to continue with that game. I should have returned it. Or don't expect Windows Easy Transfer to actually transfer downloaded addons to your new harddisk or pc. At least you can download them again manually. Also do not allow "consolitis savus locatis" on the pc, if I need to quit, I want to start where I was not redo the whole level again...

Pheew, sorry had to get that out...