I always saw it as an abstraction of expanding your Overall mining operations, and to implement mechanically how an empire, over time, goes from having only a few elite soldiers/champions clad in iron armor, to having many troops clad in iron armor

On a similar vein of thought, having "specialty weapons" (like Katana +1, although in this case it would be Katana +3...) should cost significantly more Iron.

This could be tweaked by balanced, but lets say a regular Katana of 6 attack costs 5 iron, while a prized Katana +3 (9 attack) uses 10 iron, and a master work 12 attack Katana could require 20 iron.

To represent the extra time it takes to forge such weapons, as well as the more metal (although perhaps not *as much* more) required for the process of multiple refoldings.

A theoretical Hittori Hanzo Katana would require a special Quest-gained technology, have 24 attack, and would require 50 iron.

Now, the numbers could be tweaked ... even to the point of a 1:1 ratio if Swarm tactics prove more effective than giving an awesome super weapon to a leveled Champion (although I would hope this were not the case).

Additionally, perhaps training a soldier with such a specialized weapon would add extra turns to the "training time" although it would probably be better to store this extra time as a necessary material for item creation. Abstract perhaps, yet if you were forging a Hittori Hanzo blade for your Soveriegn, it would still take say 5 turns (or so) for the weapon to be created (as opposed to immediately).

Perhaps an additional requirement of the Hittori Hanzo blade (placeholder name for a buildable, mass producible, super weapon that is found via questing) could be that only one such blade could be under production at a single time (within a city). This could be facilitated by having the blade require a special building be present within the city. My preference would be that the building would be a national wonder ... meaning any given faction can only build one such building at any one time. Therefore, you can only build one Hanzo blade at any one time, and only in one city, and only after you build the special building. If its just blue-prints for a one-time legendary weapon, however, then it doesn't need any such restrictions because you would need to obtain a very rare material for creation.

Below lies the Heartblade

Personally I would like to see a Weapon (or armor) blueprint that has under required materials a Dragon's Heart. (Heartblade) ... then, for any given Heartblade (at the time of creation) you can make it more powerful by adding more gold and magic crystals (like a slider system for price/utility). Then, there would be several optional *specialty* materials (can only choose one specialty material) ... like a Sapphire Orb, Talisman of Souls, or Obsidian Mirror. Depending on the specialty material used, the Heartblade takes a different form with different special powers (in addition to the already potent Attack skills of the weapon).

For instance, the Heartblade without any specialty materials could have a high attack (17), with a 33% chance of a "heart strike" which automatically deals 5 damage regardless of attack role (except vs large creatures) and adds +10 to the attack role. The 5 damage would not stack with sucessive damage dealt by the attack role, so if the attack of 27 dealt 5 points of damage (after initial 5) then it wouldnt ... as in only 5 points of damage would be dealt. However if the attack of 27 dealt 10 points of damage, then 5 additional points of damage would be dealt.

Vorpal Heartblade (Talisman of Souls) would give +1 death damage for each strike, as well as slowly draining the morale of nearby opponents.

Pristine Heartblade (Obsidian Mirror) would have a 25% chance of reflecting damage that would of been recieved, and instead inflicting it on the attacker. This works for magical attacks too. Pristine Heartblade also grants the wearer immunity to fear, poison, and disease.

Glimmering Heartblade (Sapphire Orb) doubles the attack speed of the wielder. Extra speed (over 10) is translated into increased attack. 20% chance to evade physical attacks, 10% resistance to magical attacks. Immunity to fatigue and time spells, as well as a 33% evasion chance for single target magical attacks.

Eaglet Heartblade (Silver Goblet) doubles movement speed and allows flight. Immunity to Air magic, and 75% resistance to ranged physical attacks.

Carnal Heartblade (Female Champion/Princess"death"- or - Ruby of Desire) +2 attack speed, +4 strength, 50% of damage dealt is absorbed back into the wielder (for a temporary max of 150% total HP, meaning a 60 HP champion could hold 90 HP during a battle, after absorbing 30 HP). 20% resistance to physical damage, 50% resistance to fire damage. 20% weakness to ice damage.

Adamantine Heartblade (Adamantium Ore (rare) + Crystal of Resonance (moderate/uncommon)) wielder is 80% resistant to physical damage, and 50% resistant to magical damage

Golden Heartblade (Heart of Midas) each kill turns into gold (+50 gold for a human, +200 gold for medium sized monster, +500 gold for large monster, +1000 or so gold for gigantic monster kill). In addition, 80% chance to evade any lethal attack ... if Golden Heartblade user has 4 HP, and an attack deals 5 damage, the user has an 80% chance to completely dodge the attack.

Silver Heartblade (Tooth of the Silverine)- ignore 50% of the defender's defense rating. (alternatively, ignore non-magical equipment based defense)

Mystic Heartblade (Statue of Jade)- ignore status affecting magical attacks, ignore opponents magical defenses (vs damage or status affects), 50% resistance to magical damage

Static Heartblade (Jewel of Zeus)- +5 electric damage with each attack, 85% resistant to electrical damage

All Heartblades (or other unique/extremely rare weapons for that matter) drop onto the battlefield after the wielder has been slain. Such weapons appear as loot for the victor of the battle.

If a Mine produces 4 Iron Oren each turn and a Foundry transforms 1 Iron Ore into Processed Iron (or whatever), having more than one Foundry....

Wait. This is about Kingdoms and Empires! Take your Foundries to another thread!!!

j/k  

Seeing that Heartblades require the use of a Dragon's Heart (see reply #151), possessing even one is a rare accomplishment. The added bonus of forging a heartblade with a specialty item may well be worth the wait, as far as looking for such special items.

Makes sense to me. Perhaps Primary Foundries and Secondary Foundries should be separated by name (and quantitative function ofc), while being of the same cost and roughly the same appearance.

On a different note, however, lets assume building the initial Mine gives you only 1 Iron per turn. This represents simply having the initial backbone of the mining shafts.

Then later, you can build an expanded mine which increases the base output to 2 per turn.

Finally, (with engineering or some such) you can build a deep-shafted mine, which increases base output to 4 per turn.

Now, somewhere in the Civilization Housing Techs ... you get the tech for slums. This also unlocks Mining Camps. A Mining Camp has roughly the same stats as a Slums (though perhaps less housing/more cost?), and can only be built adjacent to the mine. The mining Camp doubles the output of the Mine because it fills the mine with labor, where before the mine was working with largely a skeleton crew of the few, the proud, the brave volunteers.

This means Mine without Mining Camp -> 1 ore, 2 ore, 4 ore (w/ tech)

Mine WITH Mining Camp -> 2 ore, 4 ore, 8 ore (w/ tech).

NOW you have a much more realistic background of increasing Ore output where you can add a diminishing returns Foundry system.

Example: Foundry one *doubles* ore production (deep-shaft + Camp + Foundry = 16).

The next foundry additively increases output by 50% (deep-shaft + Camp + 2 Foundries = 20)

The third and fourth foundries would also increase output by 50% (additively) ... for a total of 28 ore.

// the 2nd, 3rd, 4th were all 50% for the case of simplicity as opposed to a descending staircase

Three more Foundries (6th, 7th, 8th) can now be built (if at size 5?) at an additive 25% increase ... for a max total of 34 ore.

Now then ... if there are TWO mines (both with mining camps) in a city, then this doubles the effectiveness of foundries (but doesn't increase total foundries allowed).

If two deep-shaft mines + mining camps ... then that is 16 total base Iron ore. First two foundries each additively add 100% Iron (32 -> 48) ... while the other 6 can additively add 50% (56->62->70->78->84->92)

If there are three mines within a city, then three foundries can additively add 100%.

Alternatively, you could choose the (1 mine) style for any number of mines, with only one foundry allowing for 100% increase. It have the benefit of providing a more linear Ore output per city, as opposed to giving the great advantage to two mine cities and three mine cities (I feel a two mine or three mine city would be able to mine more efficiently, as well as indicate a richer area of ore in general ... everyone knows how to mine in the city, so there is more applied effor).

//What do you think?

Hey Tridus, did you read my reply #157?

Im sorry, but I don't see a simple mine with 5 miners ... which could expand into a large complex with a hundred miners or so ... reach a grand total of only 10 iron.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/382223

Could you move your latest idea (or any future ideas) on the topic of Mines, camps and foundries ... to this new thread?

I would like for such discussion (about the Metals production mechanics) to this more centralized thread, and away from an Empires Lore dev thread.

Call them Loan Sharks!!

lol ok, you got me there. Wait a minute, the first, second, and third all give 2 (because of optimal placement). The second one is the same as the first and third. All three of the first ones built, give 2 Ore a piece. The last 4 to to equal 10 (6+4) only give 1 a piece. Foundries 1, 2, and 3, are all the same.

And I think your habit of giving mines low output is going to make anyone using iron extremely rare (which might be a good thing) ... but certainly never any legions with iron anything will be made.

So I guess its just a balance idea, and an idea of personal preference. Only time will tell, I suppose.

See, yea, I can see how are Reasonings are vastly different.

My reasoning is that the higher your tech, the FAR better your use of even one mine is. Therefore, high tech nations should be able to equip a legion with basic gear in 20 turns ... while a low tech nation could do the same in 200 turns.

Overseer works. Or Magistrate.

Magistrate I would like to reserve for the magical-research unit, however.

I like your way of interpreting this, if this is the case Stardock and its team sure are thinking way outside the box, can't wait for the game. I am so ready to see all the surprises it has in store for us, not since NWN1 was being developed have I been so hopeful and exited at the same time over one game. This game has the potential of being Huge with table top rpg game fans. "attention all dungeon masters keep an eye on this game it might turn out to be everything we ever wished for from Wizards of the coast online tools". They have/are trying, but they are publishers not game developers it takes the expertise of Stardock and there business model which allows players to be involved to have the synergy needed to finally get something out to the public that is fun and works

Aye, profiteers was one of my favorites. As well as Viziers.