From your inflection, is it correct in assuming that Bush lied " for the right reasons"? if so, maybe you could enlighten me as to a few of the "right reasons" for lying to the country? This concept confuses me.This movie itself was produced in your time frame? The modeling was all done by the USG under the normal transparency one has come to expect. The programs, their parameters and the computers they were modeled on have never been released for independent review. And an abundance of the evidence I have encountered is from 2001 to 2004 era, so I am confused to your ‘too late for me’ reference. It doesn’t take much though; to get the (GW modeling) wanted results. Is there some reason you have to believe everything about 9/11, one way or the other? There are many yahoos who will banner any cause against the USG but a question or two is usually enough to know for yourself. It is this simple for me. You either believe the whole story we were fed and in the veracity of the USG … or you don’t. For some reason though many are want to believe everything about 9/11, but will argue in most other cases on how dysfunctional and dishonest the USG is, doesn’t make sense to me?This is the point ... if you can take a big chunk out of the validity of their story and there are massive chunks to be had so at what point do you start questioning the rest of the story? There is no time limitation on murder cases and I believe over 3,000 Americans were murdered that day so why is it too late to uncover something? Surely there is a need to know more than we have been told.

Michael Moore minces everyone's words right and left.

FEAR - The greatest propaganda tool ever to be used. The more fear creeps in the more rationality pours out. In other words a little fear goes a long way. As far back as I can remember, we as Americans have been herded through the manipulation of fear. How many years was the “communist threat” used and it never happened. Gosh, they are among our best friends now, go figure. There was the imminent threat from Granada; there was the imminent threat of invasion (?) from Nicaragua, and of course there was the Taliban in Afghanistan that threatened the USG? We all know about al-Qaeda, hum … or do you? Saddam of course was presented as a dire threat to the USG and the world at large and with his al-Qaeda connections and all, but only the patriotic American sheeple believed this. The following clip does a good job of explaining this much better, but I do try, hehehe. I believe 'a clear and present danger' was the term of old.

This is a good example American hypocrisy. American lives are important and Iraqi (Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libyan) non-combatant civilians are less so? We can go to their countries and blow them to bits and if they fight back they are terrorists and we will crush them and kill most of the fighters that would have been needed for internal protection. I am tired of this self-righteous attitude that Americas’ shit doesn’t stink. Where have you been? Look around you at the masterful and stink less way the USG is taking care of its own people … and they care about someone else’s people, give it a brake.

If you respect the military of this country, you are a bigger fool than even I thought. The men and women that do all the dirty work (not their fault) for the USG, but they are the best in the world, Moore expresses this in his movie that you watched. Forgive me for not knowing what goes with what, before or after, it still makes no sense. And of all my mistakes, I should have searched you out for the strategic targets to be hit in Iraq, when all I did was look at the death tolls, go figure. Knock the chip off your shoulder and face some facts. Moore does not impugn our soldiers; he is going after the USG for fabricating the reasons for sending our loved ones there in the first place to die. Then you wouldn’t have to be so concerned about showing caskets and whatnot of which I care little. You are not going to gain any actual knowledge of your own until you stop getting your information from lists and doing some of the research on your own, is all.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

Burden of 'proof' is on the conspiracy nuts.  Rational people don't waste too much time defending reality.

People die in war. Some of those people are invariably non-combatants. It's been the case in every war since the dawn of time.

Abraxas hit the nail on the head. Civilian casualties are part of warfare, and war isn't a pretty thing. BT, you seem to subscribe to the idea that war is a somewhat gentlemenly affair when prosecuted for morally correct reasons.

Which is total bullcrap. War is messy, it is costly, it is a very unpleasant and unglamorous thing. That's reality.

NIST is the USG silly, why would they back away from their own findings? Have you read some of the stuff there? It is the USG story to a tee … this stuff is why there are people like me who want real answers not this garbage. Did you read their reports and if you did, did you filter them with logic or reality? At least you had the gumption to list something in defense of the USG and their nonsense, but these are the things we have problems with because this info is un-defendable. Rational people do not take the USG at their word and refuse to even check up on them ... ever?

FACT: Some windows near the impact area did indeed survive the crash. But that's what the windows were supposed to do—they're blast-resistant. Sooo, the fire was  so intense that it vaporized the titanium, steal, bodies, aircraft among many other things like 9 feet of steel reinforced concrete … but them damn windows sure are tough, come on. I haven’t found anything there besides the USG version of things.

hypocrisy

That one works for me, how about you?

Ok - time to get back off topic. What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

If it's Woodchuck Norris, all of it. If just an ordinary woodchuck, the equivalent of a one pound coconut.

Oh man, I love this thread! It provides me so much entertainment for me every day! Conspiracy nuts are my favorite kind of crazy