I dont think that random shards will be a problem, because with a level up you can get higher spell levels in schools, which have shards on the map.

If Int determines the chance to hit with a spell it should affect all spells and not only tactical spells.

I would also like to see some subtle global enchantments that change just a little bit a stuff but are just awesome, need some summons as well.  Falling Star seems like a another big one, earthquake is pretty common.

I don't agree that there has to be some type of counter.  In MoM you could cast detect magic to see what people were casting, and then cast a spell to dispel something before it is cast.  However, once someone had cast Call the Void and they picked you as the target--you were pretty much screwed.  If they were to put something to dispel enchantments into effect, that would be okay---detecting should be low level, but the dispel should be difficult to be able to use 4 or 5 level spell--or at least one level in all 4 disciplines--they could make a quest spell.  That would fun.

I counted 89 spells in the pdf. MoM had at least 210 (based on 35 pages of spell descriptions with at least 6 spells per page) and probably as many 250-260 (higher average per page). I didn't find the number anywhere and I didn't want to count by hand.

There were some interestings spells though, and maybe you are going for good game balance. I could live with this if the game is interesting and tight in other dimensions of gameplay. I found quests a disaster in WoM, technology was more of a chore than a game enhancement, exploration was underwhelming, and city mechanics didn't stand out either. I can't imagine these things can change easily.

It seems like Stardock is scheduled to pump out a game each year, but making this game stand out may take multiple years.

@tridus

I played numerous games in MoM where I didn't use magic for a long time.  On hard and impossible, MoM was pretty challenging for me--impossible was, well impossible without High Men or Halflings with Life magic.  But just for fun I would try games where I selected only skills like Warlord, alchemy, artificer, and myrran with no spell books just to see if I could do it.

Using magic early is always beneficial but to me it is risk reward, there is probably another way to do it, it might just cost more money and lives.  Depending how I want to play should be up to me.  I wasn't saying this is the best way to play, just it should be an option to someone who wants to pursue it.  The no magic guy in MoM was really hard to play---but it was fun to try.

The spell list definitely needs some spells to counter, block, unsumon and dispell magic !

Because it's another interesting path in the way of magic, investing in those spells to be sure that you are superior with your armies compared to someone who will invest in magic !!! It's very strategical to play that way and it might be very hard + it would be totally fitting for this game.

Yes, the spell list is really poor, I don't doubt that MoM had over 200 spells but when I read 250-260 (higher average per page) I'm having a doubt on that ! Or you didn't finish you sentence and it makes it confusing ?

WoM was a disaster okay but since the new patch it's way cooler even though the magic system is still not what I would like it to be !

Now what I will regret is no special modification of terrain (obstacles) for city battle and the magic system ! (yes again, sorry)

I agree with you, I've been way to excited about FE and about all the devs team did (with every update they gave us and what a fantastic job, nothing to say the game looks amazing on almost every points) to accept a spell list that is just good for WoM.

I've been so sad that the teleport spell has been removed in WoM when in definitive it was the only spell of value in the game but WoM is still very good if you don't play a mage =/

Tridus--I think you and I agree.  Give me the option to play stupid if I want, just because I might want to.

@Souls-Stream--

Each color had 10 spells per level so 40 total per chaos, nature, sorcery, life, and death.  there are 14 arcane spells.  So there were 214 spells total.

@KingHobbit: Ooh yeah, I see what you mean now

But ya, if MoM with it's almost 20 years of age succeed to have over 200 spells, I don't see why FE would have less [e digicons]:'([/e]

I don't think we need more "schools" or "books", books are already annoying, we need to put more spells in all existing schools and maybe have a degree of rarity like in MoM. (and Magic, yes, the card game)

For example, the book of spiders is not a bad idea but no, I don't want to see many spells linked to spiders ! Or any other spells declined in books for that matter. It should be kept simple with 6 schools.

If we have one low level spell in death linked to spider and another linked to web / tangled, it's fine with me.

Spiders are really smart animals, they don't attacks blindly until they're dead ! They should use more tactics in battle by being sneaky, eventually burrow (get invisible to the player), capture / poison then attacks with a vampirism attack giving them back their life. They should be hard to kill and flee easily (they're rather scardy cats animals)... Well, that would be an AI that would rock for a spider ! But let's not go too far maybe ! lol

Anyway, books like that adds tons of spells but doesn't add the diversity players are looking for in spells.

I completely agree with not adding more schools.  Life, Death, and the four elements are fine.  Some would argue there is room for the arcane spells that are just generic, but I think you could fit them into one of the categories.

I think the mage level is replacing the spell level in a sense.  I am fine with that.  I still go back to what I said earlier.  There is an endless number of expansions available if they keep the spell count where it is at.  Let alone, having an expansion based on each of the sovereigns, you could have The Lost Books of XXX, the Library of the Earth Mage, etc.

I had a thought regarding the spider summon portal example, and spells that opperate simillarly.  Have a % chance per turn that it would spawn a creature but on turns where it doesn't spawn a creature it makes the next creature summoned stronger.  For example some spiderlings on first turn, next turn doesnt spawn anything, next turn spawns either a stronger creature like the black widow or a higher level one (ie lvl2 spiderlings).  You could have it kick out a few extra on turn it comes into play if you want it to have some defenders right away, or leave it up to chance.

I like the idea of having a spell improve if the caster surpases the casting requirements, it can make a spell have a kind of momentum and keep it from becoming obsolete.  It also works to encourage specialization on the caster so you get a choice between a strong but limited spell pool or a larger pool with weaker spells or somewhere in between.  Not sure if the sov should be able to cast all spells as long as they have the resources or not.  Could perhaps have an increased mana cost or aditional cost if they dont have the spell ranks to allow them around the casting restriction a normal unit would have.

On the topic of global type spells, you could have something that say boosts all metal production (for all factions) for a few seasons.  Or a spell that affects ALL units in the battle the same way- like all units take 2 pts of damage (unless they resist) from burning embers (Think pyroclasm from MtG).  Or all units have reduced movement or attack range.  The player/ai could have their army built to overcome or mitigate the detrimental effect on their own side as they are planning to use the spell as part of a strategy.  Anouther example would be reducing the accuracy of all units in battle with a fog effect, but since you have units with increased accuracy it doesnt hinger you as much.

If there is worry about spell spam, there could be a cooldown applied on a unit, faction, or global level.  A damage cap, or mana to damage ratio adjustment based on the amount of mana used past a given threshold could be used to keep a spell like mana blast under control.

Im hoping the aoe targeting is enhanced for FE so you could define different hit zones for a spell.  Such as a line effect for walls, a cone effect for a spray, or a quirky hit zone like doing an aoe around a unit other than the caster (targeting a freindly unit which doesnt get hit by the spell effect  hitting everything else around them.  A three-way shot like effect could then be possible as well with it shooting forward and diagonally.  These targeting options would make tactical spells or town battles with walls easier to implement.  You could have a line of tiles (either short abstract wall piece or scall pieces that units could stand on, or a hill on the tactical map that gives better range.

From what I understood in the PDF I though there were still researchable spells ! My bad if this isn't true.

Now, what wasn't said was if there were more books / spells and they only showed us a couple of them.

And the Fire school, which is supposed to be a direct damage school, has plenty of Strategic spells when they should be more tactical (IE Rain of fire).

I prefer to cast that spell on the battle field rather than on the strategic map on one single army (except if you can cast it on an area protecting yourself for X turns or upkeeping it.

Same, I'd like to see a Tactical Fire Wall or Wall of Dirt (etc...) entraving the path of the opposing army (not one case, IE WoM) because if a powerful caster is alone and fight an army, I don't want to see him die because all units rush towards him, if you have enough mana, even a caster alone in his fortress should be able to repell the ennemy army (to some extent: IE depends of spell cast by oposing army / of magical creatures etc...)

i agree with tridus... if to win with magic or even cast fantastic spells you need to mana horde throught the game you might as well be a gimp becuase its true you wont get to do jack if the other guy who did use his mana 200 turns earlier to his advantage will be knocking down your towns way before you can snap your fingers.

also if mana will be slow to accumulate no point in going down that road to victory might as well use wataver crap you get per turn to augment your armies/champions to win by military conquest.

anycase i will give the benefit of doubt to seeing the beta game but im sure the numbers will have to be adjusted for more fluid mana use if not this game will play out same as last. create armies and steamroll

@noobshot

I agree with Tridus that it is not a good strategy, only that it should be one that is available.  The original comment I responded to was that there should be some type of cap put on how much mana some could accumulate.  Some else seconded the opinion that they could cast 13 volcanoes and then just end the game.  My point was that if that is the strategy they want to use, the game should not limit them.

There are any number times I played MoM and waited for a bigger spell instead of casting the one I just got.  A person that can cast 13 volcanoes in sequence is basically toying with the enemy sovereign and probably could have just killed them any time they wanted.  They just happened to want to kill them with volcanoes.  The game should not limit my fun---(Insert crazy evil laugh here).

***Edit*** sorry, I forgot to insert my evil laugh again.

I hope you don't think me rude and disrespectful for disagreeing with you.  The game was bad because they chose to release it for a specific sales window even though the game was not complete. They knew the game was bad but did not want to wait until February to release it, which was the next window. 

And being a professional software developer gives you no more insight into politeness than the rest of us. My experience working with programmers has shown the opposite to be true. Most of the conversation in this thread is primarily speculating about mechanics or giving an opinion about the spell book that was posted on the public forum for us to discuss. Some of the comments are negative, but there is usually a reason why the person feels that way. If you would look, most the comments in the thread are neutral or positive though.