Rigging In XSI

the50first

Join Date 11/2010

Rigging In XSI

Multimaterialed object imported from 3ds max

So I've been reading the Importing sins models from sins, to 3ds max to xsi, and I've been having alot of trouble with this.

The object is multimaterialed, so i'm not sure where this fits into the whole process, after tangent mapping or before.

Does tangent mapping carry over from the imported models; And DO you absolutely need two tangent maps (one for uv, the other to be used for tangent mapping)

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Mmmm. I killed the multitexture for some of the models I was having problems with by combineing the textures. It seems 3ds max's exporter (The working one) doesnt work all that well. The tangents are fucked and the smoothing comes out Quite badily, even though its based smoothing groups. So now i really have to learn XSI.

Mind explaining the willynilly about the islands? What does the terminology "island" refer to exactily? Is it like Uv's that are broken up and disjoined from the main?

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Quoting the50first,

reply 26

Mind explaining the willynilly about the islands? What does the terminology "island" refer to exactily? Is it like Uv's that are broken up and disjoined from the main?

YUP

I uploaded some XSI texturing videos to http://soase.weebly.com/texturing.html

and see http://soase.weebly.com/creating-the-tangent-map.html

Before

you can really see where the texture is mirrored and how it would reflect the light in-game.

After

EDIT: And yes I did fix the one engine tip and the back of the bridge.

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Thumsin, first, thanks.

Also, I did not know that Sins engine can actually illuminate objects based on particles emitting light. Neat!

Normally, if you want to have that kind of illumination embedded in a texture, you would bake it in the 3D software of choice, same as with ambient occlusion (I don't use AO on my models because it takes a long time to render due to complex ZBrush topography and it doesn't really show that much - you need more complex, overlapping geometry for it to really shine). And of course, it's not dynamic.

@the50first

Here are two screenshots of my UV map layouts as you asked, the first one is for textures, the second is for tangents. I kept them to scale so you can see that all I did was scale the original UV's down, and rotated individual pieces (islands) to produce a smooth tangent map.

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Quoting ManSh00ter,

reply 29

Thumsin, first, thanks.

Also, I did not know that Sins engine can actually illuminate objects based on particles emitting light. Neat!

Normally, if you want to have that kind of illumination embedded in a texture, you would bake it in the 3D software of choice,...

Well, the particle effect is only the "support"... the real thing is in the .fx files called via the particle, these are in fact shader coder !!!

By example, for illumination, i use the GS_star.fx... for "cloak" ( transparency ), i use GS_ShipPhasedOut.fx ... for only moving part, i use the GS_Ship.fx who is nothing more that the shader code used for render a normal ship...

In fact, everything that you see "onscreen" is render via shader code ( maybe not the GUI )... particle is only the way for something using a other shader that normal...

By example, it is very possible to make a ship like the mothership from "earth final conflict" in sins...

Hull will need use the GS_ShipPhasedOut.fx, fixed light point will use the GS_star.fx ( will need to model them inside the hull )... for the moving one, same thing but the particle effect code will add movement )... in so case, the main mesh will be a tiny triangular pyramid ( 4 triangle ), so small that it is not visible onscreen... and main mesh will have the needed particle hardpoint who call the various sections using different shaders...

Well, my next model will be a organic one, a simple one but who show how to make "animated" model, like if they have a skeleton but with using chained particle effect...

And i have great expectation for rebellion... moving from shader 2.0 to 3.0 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Level_Shader_Language#Pixel_shader_comparison ) is somehow the real "revolution"...

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@ manshooter. Thanks for the UV pic. I attempted to make mine similar, but for some reason it seems whatever changes i make to the tangent UV arent affecting the model's shading in any way. Tried this with two seperate models thinking it could be an issue with teh original mesh, but it seems its a universal problem. Have any ideas on how to fix this?

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Have you applied the tangent modifier AND linked it to the second UV map?

In case you haven't:

1. Select model

2. Property -> Tangent

3.Under UV's click "pick", then go to Selection, Clusters and find your second UV set in there, click that.

And that should be that. Now when you change the second UV set, your tangents get affected.

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Yup. Did that before I Started messing with the tangent set. Maybe importing from ALO format fucked the mesh properties in max...I'll see if the same things happen with original model files.

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So I just tested it. The mesh that i didnt import from alo seems to have been fine, and affected by tangent maps....This is something I'm Going to have to look into. I dont have half the sources for the models I'm using. So this make things tough.

Edit # 2....I just got it working with the original model too. Only things i did different was just import the OBJ (No FXB), and I didnt hook up textures..Gotta see if this works on every other model that was having problems too now...

lol. Seems my stardock accounts are fucking with eachother.... It logged me into the one i bought the game with.

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Quoting fallast,

reply 33

Yup. Did that before I Started messing with the tangent set. Maybe importing from ALO format fucked the mesh properties in max...I'll see if the same things happen with original model files.

I had a problem picking tangent property when the imported texture projection is named "Sample". When I go to pick Texture Projection 1 it just stays on Texture Projection. If I double Click on Sample and rename it to
Texture_Coordinates_AUTO
it lets me pick the second UV. Dont know why it does this but it works for me.

From http://soase.weebly.com/creating-the-tangent-map.html

From the Tangent property editor that appears, click the “Pick” button located to the right of the entry for “UVs” property. Your mouse pointer should be transformed into a black arrowhead with the word “PICK” next to it. You are now in a “Pick Session”.

While in this Pick Session, click on the “Selection” button within the Select Panel on the right side of the program window.

Navigate to and click on Polygon Mesh --> Clusters --> Texture_Coordinates_AUTO --> Texture_Projection1. This should associate the Tangent Map to the second UV set.

Note: If your UVs were not created in XSI, the directory structure might be named differently. Double click to bring up the properties window and rename to
Texture_Coordinates_AUTO

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@ Myfist0. You know what's funny? I read that part of the tutorial a few days ago and Up untill today I've been spelling that part right. WHen i just got it working, it was named "Texture_Projection_AUTO" lol. Might have something to do with the suffix.

Edit. So far my method seems to be working for tangents...Not hooking up textures, nor importing hte FXB file. I'm going to experiment and see if its the FXB screwing the pooch.

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Quoting fallast,

reply 36

...Not hooking up textures,..

Not really a problem... can always use the notepad once the .mesh is created and add the textures filename ( 1 minute work )...

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XSI can be a little buggy with tangents. Whenever I have to import models, I always use OBJ format, and then often select all faces and extract them, keeping the original. Then I erase all clusters on the new object, create two brand new UV sets and copy/paste the UV's from the original to the new sets. Seems to get rid of all bugs.

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Mmm. I'll take a try at that on the next model I do.
So far This is what I have in terms of Tangent.

http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/the50first/?action=view¤t=FuckYouGreen.png

I did a top Down uv. All my editations to that seem to have made the shading vary to colors that were unwanted :/ Any ideas? Even tearing and reorianting single polygons wouldnt get close to the original shading.

Sidenote: Its weird how the symetrical parts of the mesh are shaded differentily on opposite sides, anyone else get that?

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Only if you have a symmetrical UV island that's connected on one side (like a cylindrical mapping). Then you always get one sharp seam. The solution is to split that island into two symmetrical halves, then orient them so that you get a smooth transition.

Also, don't try to get even shading. Some color variation is normal in certain circumstances. Just try to avoid sharp transitions and drastic color changes.

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so you just want even shading per island?

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What you want is even shading transitions. So, subtle color changes, no sudden green->blue stuff. Islands should generally be evenly colored, but there are exceptions, such as islands which are basically cylindrically mapped - there you will end up with both the color transitions and a sharp seam (which is why I usually break those into two symmetrical parts and adjust both to get rid of sharp transitions.

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