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WHAT is Fallen Enchantress? You tell us

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Frogboy
FutileEmotion
Join Date 03/2009
+18
Reply #51 January 5, 2012 1:44:21 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 43

Quoting Sanati, reply 27
To be clear I wasn't talking about gameplay, like I said I'd have to play to be sure, but on the surface you can not deny the "games" look nearly identical. It's not "similar art styles."

No, that's what I mean. Until your post, it didn't seem the games look identical. I look at the two and see them visually different. That's why I'm glad I wrote this post and that you responded because it helps us get some fresh perspectives.

But a mod couldn't do what we've done in FE.  You could make a mod that takes FE and makes it into a Civ-like game. 

But code-wise, this isn't WOM++.  We kept the parts we liked (the general art style) and jettisoned what we didn't like (magic system, economic system, combat system, general gameplay, dynasties).


 

I agree with Sanati.  People who see Fallen Enchantress are going to look at the screen shots and just see War of Magic.  This is compounded by the fact that most people have not played War of Magic (even if they purchased it), and it has been too long since its release for them to remember anything specific in the images besides the general art style.  I'd go with Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress.

I also would tie in a one word marketing slogan that really encapsulates the concept behind Fallen Enchantress (a la Obama Change), and tie it in with all of the logos and marketing materials.  Something like "Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress - Explore."  Or "Choose Your Fate."

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Frogboy
Skatteverket
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #52 January 5, 2012 2:20:54 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Stupid question but does the sequel/expansion have a real fallen enchantress to be found/tell about/play/play against? If no, then why calling it fallen enchantress at all?

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Frogboy
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
+148
Reply #53 January 5, 2012 2:29:13 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

There is a real fallen enchantress.  I think it's the Wraith chick, Resolyn Empire chick?  Om..Cerveza?  It's not Lady Porcupine or Kool-Aid Khan, I think it's Seer Cerveza.  Or Oracle Cerveza.

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Frogboy
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #54 January 5, 2012 2:45:14 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think how this game gets marketed is going to be determined heavily by us folks who are getting it early.

 

If we dig it, and let the word out, folks are going to give it a chance.  If we're not digging it, the franchise is toast.

 

One question: are there still plans for a third Elemental game besides the RPG like originally intended, provided this does well?

 

 

 

 

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Frogboy
HenriHakl
Join Date 09/2011
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Reply #55 January 5, 2012 2:55:17 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress.

That's the right pitch for me.

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Frogboy
Fistalis
Join Date 10/2010
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Reply #56 January 5, 2012 2:56:57 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

A culmination of everything you learned from E:WOM. Almost everything In fallen Enchantress is a result of understanding What worked and what didn't.

 

Since everyone else is pitching titles.

Fallen Enchantress: The result of what we learned when making Elemental : War of magic.

(greatest subtitle ever, it both admits a connection and disavows it in the same line.)

 

 

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Frogboy
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #57 January 5, 2012 3:02:39 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

th ehard part of selling this game is that it looks like WoM, even though we here know it's a new game with just the same art.  Same name and looks the same.  Like saying "Here, I made you a nice meal, sure I fed you that turd before, and yes this brown lump looks like that turd AND it's called Turd Jr, doesn't mean that it isn't delicious, eat up!"  It's just a hard sale to people who haven't been here to watch FE be created, I would think.

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Frogboy
Magog_AoW
Join Date 09/2009
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Reply #58 January 5, 2012 3:03:45 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

You should keep calling it E:FE. If the game is great the word will get out anyway. It's not like Fantasy TBS fans have tons of other new games to choose from.

Be honest. Just call it the second game in the series, a total rework of the failed first game. There was a good game hidden in E:WoM, and by hiring some of the best talents around you were able to make it the game you wanted WoM to be.

MoM has nothing to do with it. Don't mention it.

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Frogboy
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #59 January 5, 2012 3:13:19 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

They are getting a new one from Paradox pretty soon I think.  Warlock?  

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Frogboy
Cauldyth
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #60 January 5, 2012 3:40:07 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

As you yourself have said, Brad, developers are perceived to be as good or as bad as their last release.  The public, in general, has a very short memory.  If Fallen Enchantress is good, then it will get good reviews and good word of mouth, and people will buy it.  Sure, the online forums on various sites will always have people who seem to take endless pleasure in pointing out past failures, no matter how long ago they were.  That doesn't mean the bulk of potential customers will care though, and most don't even read forums.

MoO3 and SotS2 both had disastrous releases (for vastly different reasons from each other, and vastly different from why Elemental had a bad release).  However, I bet if there's ever a MoO4 or a SotS3, people will judge them based on the reviews and word of mouth of the games themselves, not their feelings about the predecessors.  Same goes for Elemental: <fill-in-the-blank>.

Sometimes the short attention span of human beings is a good thing!

 

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Frogboy
Phystarstk
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #61 January 5, 2012 3:50:36 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

If you absolutely do not want to drop Elemental, almost certainly use Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress.  Like I've said before, you -really- do not want people thinking this is just another expansion or expandalone.

 

Elemental 2:  Fallen Enchantress.  However, emphasize the new approach.  "From the same studio that brought you Galactic Civilizations 2, a brand new game in the fantasy 4x genre."  Only talk about War of Magic in interviews and such with major game sites.  For shorter advertising stunts directed at a more general audience, you should just avoid mentioning War of Magic entirely, except for the Elemental at the start of the name.

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Frogboy
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #62 January 5, 2012 3:50:51 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
reply 59
They are getting a new one from Paradox pretty soon I think.  Warlock?  

 

I think that's Q2, so it's a while off.

 

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Frogboy
DsRaider
Join Date 11/2008
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Reply #63 January 5, 2012 4:32:19 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting FutileEmotion,
reply 51
I agree with Sanati. People who see Fallen Enchantress are going to look at the screen shots and just see War of Magic. This is compounded by the fact that most people have not played War of Magic (even if they purchased it), and it has been too long since its release for them to remember anything specific in the images besides the general art style. I'd go with Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress.

Of course the other side of the argument is that if you call it Elemental 2 and it looks the same as 1 consumers will feel like they are being ripped off.  This is a good point though. In order to differentiate E:FE  you should really be putting tons of cool screen shots out there that look nothing like WoM. If you have a screenshot that looks like it could be from WoM then toss it. 

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Frogboy
Fistalis
Join Date 10/2010
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Reply #64 January 5, 2012 4:38:40 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting DsRaider,
reply 63

Quoting FutileEmotion, reply 51I agree with Sanati. People who see Fallen Enchantress are going to look at the screen shots and just see War of Magic. This is compounded by the fact that most people have not played War of Magic (even if they purchased it), and it has been too long since its release for them to remember anything specific in the images besides the general art style. I'd go with Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress.

Of course the other side of the argument is that if you call it Elemental 2 and it looks the same as 1 consumers will feel like they are being ripped off.  This is a good point though. In order to differentiate E:FE  you should really be putting tons of cool screen shots out there that look nothing like WoM. If you have a screenshot that looks like it could be from WoM then toss it. 

/sarcasm on

While your at create a cut scene and only post screen shots from said cutscene

/sarcasm off.

I hate when games purposely misdirect people with the best screenshots they can come up with and 99% of the time your looking at something that looks NOTHING like the screen shot.

Like it or not.. this game has large ties with E:WOM. It uses the same engine, same style etc. At a glance most people will not be able to tell the difference. Misdirecting people with screenshots that aren't representative of the game isn't going to help.

I stick by my position that FE should be presented as the representation of everything stardock learned with E:wom. Admit that E:wom isn't everything you wanted it to be, but that you learned from that and this representation continues on the lore but is a result of what was earned from E:wom, Not a continuation of it.

 

This has been the line on the forums.. and personally I think if thats the story stick to it. Humility in marketing.. so crazy it just might work.

 

Edit: My point is that no matter how you present it.. its going to be tied to and compared to its predecessor. (for an example see Arcania or sim city societies). So accept it.. Preempt the inevitable and spin it to your advantage.

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Frogboy
Savoy3
Join Date 03/2008
0
Reply #65 January 5, 2012 4:41:52 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think you can asume that most people have not heared about elemental and its issues, and therefore you can use a similar positioning as you used with elemental.

 

The way I became interested (and bought) elemental was because it was refering to master of magic. Why not do that again for FE?

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Frogboy
marlowc
Join Date 12/2010
0
Reply #66 January 5, 2012 4:43:26 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'd say keep it simple - " ELEMENTAL 2 : Fallen Enchantress" is good,

Cheers

Chris

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Frogboy
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #67 January 5, 2012 4:44:02 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Skatteverket,
reply 52
Stupid question but does the sequel/expansion have a real fallen enchantress to be found/tell about/play/play against? If no, then why calling it fallen enchantress at all?

Yes, the campaign revolves around her.

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Frogboy
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+2415 sdemperor
Reply #68 January 5, 2012 4:45:25 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,
reply 54
I think how this game gets marketed is going to be determined heavily by us folks who are getting it early.

 

If we dig it, and let the word out, folks are going to give it a chance.  If we're not digging it, the franchise is toast.

 

One question: are there still plans for a third Elemental game besides the RPG like originally intended, provided this does well?


 

Yes, beyond the expansion pack intended for Fallen Enchantress, there is a third strategy game in mind for the Elemental universe if FE does well.

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Frogboy
Skatteverket
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #69 January 5, 2012 5:08:14 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

(off topic) So, exactly 2 weeks left to the Beta. Were actually going to play it on a thursday or friday? YAY!

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Frogboy
Marvelous1967
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #70 January 5, 2012 5:28:43 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Derek Paxton's Fallen Elemental

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Frogboy
Marvelous1967
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #71 January 5, 2012 5:29:16 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Sorry--Derek Paxton's Fallen Enchantress

 

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Frogboy
Murteas
Join Date 08/2003
+44
Reply #72 January 5, 2012 6:10:13 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Elemental : Fall from Enchantress  

 

For me I have been following it so closely that the name is really irrelevant.

 

However for the broader audience, I like Elemental: Fallen Enchantress.   I don't think it will put off other people as much as you might think.   Elemental 2:Fallen Enchantress would be okay as well, but I think it is unecessary.

 

Actually, I would even vote for Fallen Enchantress: A 4x game set in the Elemental universe.   This clarifies that the game is different even though the setting is the same (or similar).

 

Fallen Enchantress: An Elemental Adventure

Fallen Enchantress: An Elemental Strategy Game

Fallen Enchantress: Elemental

 

 

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Frogboy
sweatyboatman
Join Date 08/2006
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Reply #73 January 5, 2012 6:11:44 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

My initial reaction was that you should downplay the Elemental WoM connection, because the game was panned by critics and was pretty bad in general.  But that's juvenile and cowardly and positively reeks of Big Publisher Syndrome.

You're not trying to trick people into buying FE.  Either the game is as good as you think it should be, or you're quitting the video game business altogether.  So either the game is going to be good and get good reviews and good buzz from the player community.  Or it's going to suck and you wont be able to sell it even if you call it LolCat Farmville: I Can Haz Elementalz.

So call it what it is. 

Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress.  A new game set in the Elemental universe.

 

And it will go down in history as the greatest Turn-Based Fantasy RPG ever created! 

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Frogboy
mmilleder
Join Date 10/2010
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Reply #74 January 5, 2012 6:13:49 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Marvelous1967,
reply 71
Sorry--Derek Paxton's Fallen Enchantress

This leads me to:

Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress

From the Makers of Galactic Civilizations 2 and Fall from Heaven 2

... mentioning two well-regarded second games and showing their makers are doing it again.

 

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Frogboy
Trojasmic
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #75 January 5, 2012 6:20:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Marvelous1967,
reply 71
Sorry--Derek Paxton's Fallen Enchantress

 

Yeah let's make Derek Paxton the next Sid Meier.  For me, Fallen Enchantress is hopefully the game I was hoping to get when I paid for EWOM.  There's a lot of hope in that statement.  I reserve the right to write more on January 19th! 

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