What I would like to see in the game.

By on November 8, 2015 3:52:33 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Madmaxneo

Join Date 11/2014
+1

I got AotS today and so far I am impressed. 

Here are a few things I would like to see in the game and that I think would make it even more epic.

1. Different win scenarios other than just collecting points. Ideas that come to mind are: Complete elimination, control all points on the map. and produce so many of whatever unit.

2. Map tracking: Have it so that we know which map we have beat the AI at and at what difficulty level. 

3. Achievements: Steam Achievements and in game achievements, like beat a map in less than 10 minutes or something similar. 

4. Have units gain rank thereby giving them slightly better abilities (maybe even have the player choose which abilities), One way to keep track of this is unit decals.

5. Damage effects: Meaning that units smoke and'or shoot sparks when they get badly damaged. 

6. Guard commands and retreat when faced with certain defeat command. Setting a rally point for the retreating units would be awesome. This could also be used to pull enemy units into a trap.....

7 A rally command. Where you could designate certain units to respond to quick key button and they all rally at a certain predetermined point.

More to come......

 

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November 9, 2015 12:56:13 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Jetkar,


Quoting Ticktoc,




Quoting tatsujb,



well in this case AOTS currently supports pausing in multiplayer. *crosses fingers hoping they don't remove this*


Alternatively a kick player option. 
 



IMHO I don't agree because I have seen first hand in game server management certain teams or group players would do this to certain innocent players who either cant play well or the one being bullied.

simple. 5 pauses max.

 

the  guy wants to be a douche? fine but his fun runs out at five and that's easily drained in a single second.

whereas if the game is 6H long. 5 pipi pauses max is more than reasonable.

Quoting Madmaxneo,

I discovered last night that the dreadnoughts can build their own units, 
how do you do this ?

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November 9, 2015 2:48:36 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Madmaxneo,



Regardless I discovered last night that the dreadnoughts can build their own units, and apparently they follow them at the dreadnoughts speed. This changes my opinion on this, it is a great idea!... plus they can build medic units that heal the whole formation.....

Is that working for you?  I have been unable to make this work so I thought it was not fully implemented.

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November 9, 2015 7:45:10 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting MnMShow,


Quoting Madmaxneo,



Regardless I discovered last night that the dreadnoughts can build their own units, and apparently they follow them at the dreadnoughts speed. This changes my opinion on this, it is a great idea!... plus they can build medic units that heal the whole formation.....



Is that working for you?  I have been unable to make this work so I thought it was not fully implemented.

 

Well it seems to work. I found out when playing the huge 5 player map with 4 AI's. It was taking forever to beat the bad guys so I started looking for way to give me an advantage. The first time I did it I didn't realize I was on the dreadnought when I clicked to build some bombers and some medics. Later I realized that particular dreadnought was surviving much longer that I expected it to. I was also trying to group all my bombers into one massive formation and every time I clicked on certain ones my dreadnought would get selected and so would a few other units. That is also when I realized they were all moving together instead of leaving the dreadnoughts behind. So I would say it is working pretty good so far. Though I think there is a limit as to how many units any particular ship may have. 

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November 9, 2015 8:09:06 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Yes it works. T2 units can do it too. Queueing units this way creates a kind of build order queue that gets filled on demand by available factories. The new units automatically become part of the battle group upon spawning, catch up to the dreadnought, then get into formation to do their duty. Pretty awesome way to keep your groups stocked with units. Ideally the empire tree would do a better job of making it obvious how many of each unit is already in the group so we can quickly determine which reinforcements we want to request.

Here are things that need work. It will queue units at factories on the other side of the map. Not so good if you tend to make forward bases all over like I do. Also if the unit gets queued in a factory already on a repeat queue, the factory queue will retain that unit request in its queue indefinitely and subsequent units spawn ungrouped and not really wanted.

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November 10, 2015 2:16:45 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Interesting I think I did this by accident and didn't realise

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November 10, 2015 5:39:42 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

oh I though you meant they could actually construct the units.

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November 10, 2015 11:10:37 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting tatsujb,


Quoting Madmaxneo,

what would make it epic to you?



being unconstrained completely, no constraints in battle time, no micro constraints (Logistics I'm looking at you), no constraints in unit mobility (small passes on maps I'm looking at you). playing with a massively interactive community that must cooperate to vanquish each other in very large groups for fun and then can group again how they want. the game being balanced and fun to play. that's obviously the most primordial. it's seems like it's easy and tossed aside so easily in favor of other factors but the reality is : so many people get it wrong and it makes and breaks an RTS game.

I'm going to tease a bit:

SupCom wasn't unconstrined. First, it had a unit limit. Ashes doesn't.  Second, you had to endlessly build energy.  In fact, the FIRST thing you build are a couple of energy producers.

In Ashes, you have logistics which are basically the same thing.  Except, of course, we don't hard code limit the # of units.

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November 11, 2015 12:07:11 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting tatsujb,

oh I though you meant they could actually construct the units.

It would be nice if they could. I noticed that sometimes the support units show up pretty fast and sometimes I can go through half the game with nothing showing up. 

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November 11, 2015 12:22:14 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,



I'm going to tease a bit:

SupCom wasn't unconstrined. First, it had a unit limit. Ashes doesn't.  Second, you had to endlessly build energy.  In fact, the FIRST thing you build are a couple of energy producers.

In Ashes, you have logistics which are basically the same thing.  Except, of course, we don't hard code limit the # of units.

 

So true and so far Ashes is headed in the direction of being a truly epic RTS. I just played a game that lasted an hour and a half and it was awesome (except for the audio glitch distortions about an hour in). It was me and 5 or 6 AI's. I set the goal limit high at 2000 and I tried to eradicate all the bases, but alas I wasted to much time building 2 very large forces and a smaller third one. I did take out two and almost a third as the game ended when I was assaulting the base. I am also still in easy mode and I can tell you that the Cronus dreadnoughts and the missile cruisers rule! I may try a game with them teamed up against me before I go with the next difficulty level.

But there should seriously be some kind of defense against missile cruisers and dreadnoughts (especially for the bases).... They stay at a good range and just bomb away. 

 

For me epic would mean having a single player game that involves world spanning conquests where you would get resources from each of the bases you establish and still have to defend them.  It would also be really awesome if some units followed to new maps or battles and kept their ranks.

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November 11, 2015 12:58:05 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

We need point defense.

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November 11, 2015 1:06:44 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I just want Ashes to have a planetary spending wheel and tactical combat....

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November 11, 2015 7:44:48 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

I'm going to tease a bit:

SupCom wasn't unconstrined. First, it had a unit limit. Ashes doesn't.  Second, you had to endlessly build energy.  In fact, the FIRST thing you build are a couple of energy producers.

In Ashes, you have logistics which are basically the same thing.  Except, of course, we don't hard code limit the # of units.
allow me to respond  (and please, do not shy away from teasing like this, it's great! )

No actually Supcom had unit cap that you didn't immediately run into (nor ever for that matter)

while in AOTS you can theoretically upgrade unit cap infinitely your fun runs out after the tenth upgrade or so : (can't find the thread now but this guy attained some ~5000 logistics used but of course this crashed the game) and you DO run into unit cap immediately. And having to deal with that is THE most awful drag.

especially the way it's done. You just can't correct it immediately. you have to wait it out. Please appreciate that when I'm tutoring an FA noob in person he can fuck the economical situation up as bad as he wants I can always take over and rectify it. If he's dying vs an easy AI it doesn't matter if he's down to only his commander I can take over and rectify that too. 

The retort to the above (me saying it's annoying to screw up forgetting to build research) would probably seem like it should be "well you learned from that and now you won't do it again". No. Taking what I just added as context a good strategic game doesn't punish you for lack of skill. It actually doesn't punish you at all. What SupCom effectively did was teaching the player about itself throughout the whole length of the game. If the student wasn't attentive and didn't understand that's ok supcom wasn't going to punish him for it. Because this way ... if he suddenly DID get it. He would be INSTANTANEOUSLY rewarded for it. (there wouldn't still be a punishment in effect that had durration still on it's clock)

You finally get the economy and that you can press pause on EVERYTHING. fine! instantly restored an economy run deep into the ground to the positive by pausing everything. 

do you understand what I'm trying to illustrate? I want this game to have the same dimension of no stick, only carrot. And currently logistics and the way research just is gets in the way of that.

Anyways, in Supcom being able to build more than 90 units required no micro on your part. and you never ever hit 1500 in multiplayer if the opponent was trying to win at all.

about the first thing you build is energy..... ermm dunno if you've really been watching Gyle cast but I can't think of anyone actually doing that unless going bomber first and even then. that's a teeeeeeeeeerible strategy.

The initial storage of mass and energy you have is intentionally big enough to cover a full factory and three mass point and 4 pgens and engineers and......

you have 650 mass and 4000 energy to boot :

a factory costs 240 mass and 2100 energy :

WHY ....would one ever go anything other than factory first???

 

it makes no sense. the sooner you have a factory the sooner you can start exponentializing (because of the multiplying number of units that can construct (ergo claim you further resource income) : engineers. whereas you started with a single one. the commander).

and of course you don't want to put off exponetializing to later because it's nature implies starting it late will cleave the gap between you and your opponent ever greater as the game progresses (assuming you are both completely identical players therefore no situation reversals will occur).

 

As for energy. I don't quite understand what you are saying. 

 

for me Mass = Metal and Energy = Radiocatives.

two resources that make the centerpiece of your economy and that you must balance throughout the game. their importance being illustrated by their central presence in the UI.

the fact that this transforms the second resource type into a localized one just like the first doesn't detract from it functioning the same way. you need it to build units (and structures and some structures consume it to function). all it does is change radioactives into a less easily attainable resource. thereby justifying a smaller need for it.

I'm not going to comment on this change from supcom because so far I like it. 

I don't see, on the other hand, how you manage to assume that Energy in AOTS has anything to compare with energy in SupCom. It must be the name.... traitorous things them names. 

If you ever play supcom again DO NOT build a P-gen first. build a factory and from that factory build a engineer first. Also don't move the commander early on (and yes that implies don't build anything where he's standing.) FAF added a permanently visible representation of the build radius. As you probably well know there's a difference between building anything within that build radius and outside of it. In the first case the unit will commence construction immediately without relocating and in the second case the unit moves all the way up to right in front of the location and only then does he begin construction. 

As soon as you load in a game with that visible build radius. the first thing you'll notice is that on all of the maps with the typical 4 starting mass points: these mass points will be precisely within the visible build radius.... the rest will be obvious

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