Normal mode difficulty is not normal

By on November 12, 2015 6:09:52 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Madmaxneo

Join Date 11/2014
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I have enjoyed many RTS games and I can say that normal is not normal. It is at least hard if not much more difficult than that. I played through easy mode and found it to be pretty easy. I jumped to normal mode and figured it would be at least a little more difficult, but no, it is a lot more difficult. I even tried changing some of the settings like no neutral defenders and it did not help. No matter what it seems I do they continue to always go for my weak spot early on. So if anyone has any ideas I would greatly appreciate it. 

 

Honestly though, I figured there would be a much more linear increase in difficulty instead of a jump like this. I am not sure what to do at this point except ask for advice and see what everyone else thinks.

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November 12, 2015 7:14:52 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Yeah, normal is significantly harder than easy. I'm sure they'll get that balanced out before release.

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November 12, 2015 10:57:44 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

For those that have beat the game at normal level, could you please give me some tips?

 

So far nothing I have tried is working.  TBH it seems like it was meant not to be beat, which is frustrating. 

 

I don't think the game should be this hard to be at normal level. 

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November 12, 2015 11:08:04 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Kudos to the devs for making a non-cheating AI that is tough to beat!

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November 13, 2015 12:00:19 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting eviator,

Kudos to the devs for making a non-cheating AI that is tough to beat!

 

You sure it is non cheating? The AI always seems to know where to hit me..... 

 

If it isn't cheating then kudos to the developers, but it should in no way be this difficult to eradicate the enemy at normal level. It is easy to win by reaching critical mass but not by destroying the AI's base. My goal is to be able to defeat the enemy on a militaristic level and not by reaching critical mass....

 

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November 13, 2015 12:24:43 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

you need to increase your fleet size.. having your factories queued helps a lot..actually makes a difference..because when i started..i had a hard time..and i looked at my fleet capacity.it would be like 50 since i was manually building ships..now they pump out auto ..the ones i want..also build more frigate factories like on front lines..don't rely on 1-2.. the ai knows where to hit you..because they do scout..have ships to increase range.because if its an open view map..where you can see the enemy progressing..ai knows this also..and it will probably see your large build up..and try to hit you at a weak point which is anywhere else really..then it gets frustrating because it gets hectic...also try to expand multiple directions..not just one way..mm also dont always rely on brutes and archers t1 units..build t2 going to midgame..and dont forget quantum relays once you have radioactive..by building auto and pinging where you want it to amass ..you will reach 100 fleet cap..and wont be able to produce anymore until you upgrade logistics.

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November 13, 2015 2:14:45 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

The reason why normal is so hard is because the Ai. cheat I mean you are handicapped at more difficult levels above normal instead of having a harder Ai above normal level. I think instead of handicapping I mean cheating the levels should just be harder at levels above normal. I don't want an easy game that cheats I mean handicaps you at harder levels. What I want to start saying is before complaining about to hard of a level how long have you been playing. It should take quit awhile for anyone to beat a game. A lot of practice!!! I edited it slightly.

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November 13, 2015 2:16:44 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

I'm pretty sure the normal AI does not cheat. It does above normal, giving the AI an eco boost. If you are losing to the normal AI you should find that impressive.

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November 13, 2015 2:23:45 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

agreed!!! I meant above normal sorry!!!

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November 13, 2015 3:50:18 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

In no way is normal too hard to beat but I agree it might be too big a jump from easy. I am not sure why someone is saying the player is handicapped after normal difficulty. There is no way the Devs would do that. Handicapped would mean things like making our units slower than the AIs, reducing the HP or damage of our units compared to the AIs. I am sure this does not happen. If you are seeing higher values on the AI units it just means they have invested in more unit upgrades than you have.

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November 13, 2015 10:18:22 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Please note that as I said earlier I can beat the enemy by getting to critical mass quickly, but I would like to be able to eliminate the enemies forces and destroy its base before I reach critical mass.

The thing is I have tried different ways of defeating the enemy in normal mode and nothing helps. I had originally set the build cue to auto but I for some reason am unable to gain metal quick enough to keep my production going. I am able to gain half the real estate on the map pretty quickly but I also need to defend those points. Trying to develop the defenses and build a good offensive force destroys any metal production I have. If I skimp in any area the enemy attacks that area and reduces my metal production. I can actually get a little further by not repeating the build cue but I then need to micro manage everything.

 

Has anyone here defeated the normal level enemy by destroying the bases and not by reaching critical mass?

 

If so, and you don't mind sharing, what is your strategy?

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November 13, 2015 11:23:14 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Interesting. I just played again and obliterated the enemy (I choose "To the Death"). I used the same exact strategy I did on easy mode and wiped the enemy out. Oddly enough the first few times I tried that I got my butt whipped. Though I did discover something, after I get some massive forces it is a good idea to turn off "repeat build cue" for all factories (except for the dreadnoughts) and focus on building the supporting units for the dreadnoughts. 

This time I was able to keep the enemy from building more than one dreadnought as I was able to quickly control most of the map. That one dreadnought (and it's supporting force) died easily enough when it met with my dreadnought killer sitting near a repair bay, with a medic and some other defenses.....

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November 13, 2015 11:49:29 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

The default victory points are quite low so you could put them up to give yourself more time perhaps? Or do To the Death as you have done Didn't know it was called that though!

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November 13, 2015 7:23:38 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

I was able to sometimes beat 3 AI all set to challenging on previous builds.  It actually seems harder since the last update though and now I can only beat them on normal so far.  There is a small map made for 4 players and I was able to defeat two opponents militarily and just about the 3rd when I won through the turinium victory points with all AI set to normal on this latest build.  There seem to be two important factors, one is whether or not the AI go after each other enough.  If they expend a lot of forces fighting each other you can usually capitalize on it.  The other thing is to go after and defend the radioactives.  Controlling that resource tends to be the make or break factor in beating multiple AI opponents from what I have seen.  I actually make a point of avoiding the reactors and let the AI duke it out over them.  If an AI is dominating though and gets more than half way to the turinium victory points then I will go after them.  While the AI is fighting each other over reactors I go for other strategic points (besides just the radioactives) and build up T3's and quantum relays so that I can increase logisitics and health and weapons strength.

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November 13, 2015 10:27:56 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Ticktoc,

In no way is normal too hard to beat but I agree it might be too big a jump from easy. I am not sure why someone is saying the player is handicapped after normal difficulty. There is no way the Devs would do that. Handicapped would mean things like making our units slower than the AIs, reducing the HP or damage of our units compared to the AIs. I am sure this does not happen. If you are seeing higher values on the AI units it just means they have invested in more unit upgrades than you have.
Agree about normal mot being to hard to beat. Have you read the manual. The Ai gets economic bonuses after normal. This was also that way in two. My guess is that you don't call this a handicap I call this cheating. I would rather make the harder levels harder not cheating.  My guess you haven't read the manual, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

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November 13, 2015 10:48:46 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

I find this thread unusual, because I just purchased the Early Access from steam and played the map "Knife Fight" on Beginner, which was extremely easy so I played on Normal which had no difference and then jumped to the hardest difficulty "Insane" and it was easy as hell too. I may have stumbled upon a bug with this map or something because none of the modes were challenging at all. I will play some other maps to test this because I think it's an AI issue on this specific map.

Can anyone else test these difficulty modes on "Knife Fight"(2player map) and see if they notice the same level of ease?

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November 13, 2015 11:11:11 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

A new player should have trouble on normal, and lose handily on insane. So I will try to duplicate this on Knife Fight tonight.

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November 13, 2015 11:27:48 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Thanks eviator, let us know the outcome! When I played all the difficulties, it seemed like the AI was barely doing anything each time.

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November 14, 2015 1:31:24 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Well I tried it. Played Knife Fight on Beginner, won easily, then Normal, won with fair resistance, then Insane and got clobbered. On insane at 2 minutes they had over 3,000 score to my 300. They attacked with dreadnoughts at around the 8 minute mark. So unless you are an RTS God, I think you encountered a bug that I did not reproduce.

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November 14, 2015 1:44:10 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

@admiralWillyWilber

This is about Ashes of the Singularity, not Galactic Civilizations III. Please pay attention in what threads you are posting.

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November 14, 2015 5:17:42 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

Agree about normal mot being to hard to beat. Have you read the manual. The Ai gets economic bonuses after normal. This was also that way in two. My guess is that you don't call this a handicap I call this cheating. I would rather make the harder levels harder not cheating.  My guess you haven't read the manual, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

I didn't know what you were referring to until I saw this.


Quoting Rhonin_the_wizard,

This is about Ashes of the Singularity, not Galactic Civilizations III. Please pay attention in what threads you are posting.

I find it ironic.

I have never played at RTS or TBS where the higher difficulty levels don't cheat. As you allude to I think you are having an issue over semantics. For me: The player is the baseline which never changes. Hard AI get bonuses and Easy AI get handicapped as they are intentionally made worse. 

(Well that is true for RTSs and Ashes, I know in some TBS like Civ the player does get harsher penalties on higher difficulty levels, this could be a handicap if the AI doesn't get the same treatment)

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November 14, 2015 10:16:35 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Sorry wrong post. I wish their were different catagories. I will try to pay attention.

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November 14, 2015 12:10:38 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

@eviator

Tried is this morning on insane again and it was wayyy more challenging. Must have been a weird bug, which should still be noted I think!

Going to try and beat it on insane

Thanks for the help with figuring out what was going on!

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November 14, 2015 1:27:37 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Well if the AI is not cheating in normal I would really like to know how you get a Hyperion with over 40K health with AI on normal in v.63 on my side.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/397801945112401419/E19EFF267748E0197D4D39BC20A40A32478EBC8D/

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November 14, 2015 1:46:09 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting legacyone,

Well if the AI is not cheating in normal I would really like to know how you get a Hyperion with over 40K health with AI on normal in v.63 on my side.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/397801945112401419/E19EFF267748E0197D4D39BC20A40A32478EBC8D/

 

I agree. I have noticed that I need to have some ridiculous forces in place to even stop one dreadnought.

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November 14, 2015 1:50:53 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting iplay291,

@eviator

Tried is this morning on insane again and it was wayyy more challenging. Must have been a weird bug, which should still be noted I think!

Going to try and beat it on insane

Thanks for the help with figuring out what was going on!

 

Ok, if your so good at beating the enemy on normal mode, then what is your strategy? I did it once on one map (Knife fight) but am unable to replicate the scenario on any other map (Deneb in particular). No matter what I do or how fast I build the enemy overwhelms me with forces every time. If I am able to hold on long enough they send a super dreadnought at me and I start to get wiped out. I usually quit when I know I am going to loose because there is no sense in wasting the time to keep playing. 

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