Windows 10 - no big deal...

By on November 13, 2015 6:06:56 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002
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So what's the fuss about. Windows 10 installed earlier today and, that's it...

I can still do everything I need to with the minimum of effort. I still have my taskbar toolbar 'Programs', so I don't need that ugly start menu. Everything seems easy to find and nothing's broken.

The only thing I need to fix is the fugly look but, isn't that what we skinners do best

(WB10 - where are you?)

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November 13, 2015 7:34:55 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Just curious - did you do a straight upgrade or an install (I guess essentially a re-install) from scratch?

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November 13, 2015 8:45:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I did upgrade, rollback, then fresh install to dual boot with Windows 8.1. Easy as falling off a curb.

 

One rig I just upgraded from 8.1, then just clean installed 10. No dual boot. I have one rig triple booted 7, 8.1, and 10.

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November 13, 2015 8:45:48 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums


Windows 10 installed earlier today and, that's it...

Mostly it'll be fine.

Particularly if it's a clean install.

If however it is an update on a system that has been running for 6 years you'll find issues....sooner or later.

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November 13, 2015 10:46:57 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I agree with FL.

 

Win10 is easy to use. There really isn't an urgent need for start 10 like there was for start 8.

 

I think this would be a good opportunity to add a few more bells and whistles to the program. Give people additional reasons to buy it.

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November 14, 2015 12:29:38 AM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Make sure you've combed over your motherboard and/or PC mfr's website for Win10 drivers and updates - expressly chipset, etc. Glad you're working well.

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November 14, 2015 5:10:37 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There's not really any big deal surrounding hardware or software issues with win10. The issues that have been focused on so far is privacy - you literally cannot turn off sending data to MS. And to a lesser degree the unclear revenue stream for MS because they gave it away for free to most people. (Those issues are probably connected, obviously). There's a vocal group on these forums that take these issues seriously. But if your question is just "does it work?" then the answer is pretty much yes.

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November 14, 2015 6:59:27 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,

 The issues that have been focused on so far is privacy - you literally cannot turn off sending data to MS. And to a lesser degree the unclear revenue stream for MS because they gave it away for free to most people. (Those issues are probably connected, obviously).

 

As Heavenfall has noted, the problems with W10 is that it spies the shit out of you both in ways that have been widely discussed, and in ways that have been less widely disclosed/discussed to date.  Also, Heavenfall correctly notes that it is unclear what the result of this will be for the end user - however, it's reasonable to assume that, for the user, the best case outcome would be "nothing" and a worst case scenario would be "a lot worse than nothing."

I might note that this trend is not limited to W10, but rather appears to be the new direction that MS is taking as a company.  I don't use any MS products other than Win and occasionally Skype.  The latest android skype version for example requested a new set of app permissions that were quite an escalation from their previous version.  I put off installing it for a while and then finally just installed it and nerfed its permissions with Cyanogenmod.  A few hours after installing it skype attempted to access my phone's camera while the phone was in airplane mode and put away for the night (needless to say skype should not have been running and the phone was obviously not in use).  CM quashed the camera-use request and notified me, after which I simply uninstalled skype on my phone altogether (maybe I'll reinstall it on my next trip abroad, which was the reason it was on there to begin with (although with redphone/signal it is questionable if this will be necessary, but I digress))...

I mentioned this to a buddy of mine that works in the (technology) security industry and he stated that MS is attempting to catch up to Apple and Google (and ostensibly FB) with its level of user spying and user data.  As Heavenfall said before - it's unclear what they're going to be doing with this data, but the "new" tech market appears to be giving away services for "free" and using it to commodidize user data and transform it into commercial value (ie selling your user data to marketers, blackmailers, foreign governments, nosey ex-wives, the IRS, credit reporting agencies, or whathaveyou).  But as I aforementioned, in a way that is unlikely to be beneficial to you, dear user..

 

I might mention that Win8.1 will be it for me when it comes to using MS products.  Way back in the day I used Linux and eventually transitioned to windows for the software that worked with win, but not so well with Unix/BSD.  The last pieces of software that I use that are windows-tied (video games) are finally breaking off and being much more unix stable and approachable for someone like myself.  Additionally Linux has come a loooong way in terms of usability (the GUI really was excellent even 5 years ago - so excellent that someone I knew who was using it didn't even know there was such a thing as a command line) compared with the steep learning curves required 15+ years ago when I had a go at it.  I am expecting to make this transition within the next handful of years as Steam itself becomes a better native-port, but before the lifespan of W8.1 runs its course - it's really close for me though, if they canceled 8.1 tomorrow, I'd be running Linux by this evening and wouldn't look back..

Hope this helps, cheers.

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November 14, 2015 8:50:48 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Eventually, IMO, Linux will work itself up to play with the big boys. Unless, of course, one of those big boys don't buy 'em out first.

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November 14, 2015 9:12:36 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

This thread had been hijacked. The OP did not intend to discuss privacy, but rather ease of use, and the lack of need for supliment programs to enhance it's functipnality.

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November 14, 2015 9:33:35 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Borg999,

This thread had been hijacked. The OP did not intend to discuss privacy, but rather ease of use, and the lack of need for supliment programs to enhance it's functipnality.

Yes. it has a bit.

Most of the 'negativity' is a beat-up by the great unwashed...who are leery of the 'free update' model and claim there MUST be a catch. [even if they need to fabricate it].

As with most OS updates the older the OS install being updated the more likely you will strike an issue.  3 out of 4 of my updates to 10 were 99% pain-free.  One was not - it was the 'oldest' running system.

Several games/proggies dummy-spat and resisted all efforts to get them to still work.... and yet old games [as old as NFS-Porsche] still ran just fine.

Of course, the ones that failed quite possibly would be OK with a re-install.

I had no interest in doing a clean install on this one [Terry's]...as it was intended as a dry run for my prime machine...and considering some annoyances with NVidia drivers will be holding off for several months yet before even considering doing so....

Coincidentally [or not] 2 old small IDE drives in removable caddies have also gone 'bung'...as if something queer happened with the BIOS...

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November 14, 2015 10:29:26 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Jafo,


 


Most of the 'negativity' is a beat-up by the great unwashed...who are leery of the 'free update' model and claim there MUST be a catch. [even if they need to fabricate it].

 

This remains to be seen - I stand by my statement and what will turn out to be 'common' understandings in the future will bear this out.  There is a likelihood that some of these issues are quietly remedied, however, in which case joe-six pack may be none the wiser.  This is especially true in the corporate world where, for example, many companies do not allow the use of SIRI, lest trade secrets be stored offsite by someone else - how, for example these data captures will comply with HIPAA or FINRA remain to be seen - and may very well end up in court..

 

It is only a matter of time before similar stories start appearing with respect to Apple, MS and FB.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/06/how-law-enforcement-can-use-google-timeline-to-track-your-every-move/

For example, Apple's introduced use of end to end encryption for communication is thought to be a response to the pervasive use of warrants issued against Apple users for data (ie Apple itself cannot unencrypt the data, thus are unable to comply).  Similarly Google has taken great lengths to shore up its encryption internally after it was discovered that government snoops were finding unencrypted data being passed back and forth inside their data-centers.  MS is currently embroiled in a lawsuit with the federal government over whether data kept in server farms in Ireland are within the jurisdiction of US law enforcement (presumably to spy on someone). FB, as far as I can tell, generates tones of data, but doesn't really know what to do with it and is also sloppy about it - the preliminary reports coming in from its phone app (I honestly have no idea why anyone uses FB, but I digress) is that its creepy microphone recording feature will intermittently turn on to sell you more targeted ads..

See here's the thing.  What this shows is both the value of this information to various parties, and also the individual danger they may potentially pose.  So companies are doing their best to acquire/generate more of it (because it's valuable), but then also to safeguard it (because presumably it becomes worth less if everyone else has it, and also because users may attempt to styme it if they feel that it is somehow unsafe or insecure).  However, ultimately these two goals are contradictory and ultimately will prove to be irreconcilable.

I don't think that this thread has been hijacked, my interpretation was that the OP was asking why people didn't like W10.  Apart from seeing no specific benefit over, say 8.1, I'm of the mindset that the privacy concerns are a valid concern.  Sure, you're going to be spied on anyway (this rebuttal should point out just how bad the overall level of privacy in society has become), but honestly - why make it easier for everyone?

 

If you want a legit and above the board reason for MS to give W10 away for free - it's because supporting only 1 legacy OS is a lot cheaper than 3, or 4 or whatever it is.  Streamlining platforms means streamlining development, support, and all the rest.. This is a good reason - but like most things, it is unlikely to be the only reason..

 

cheers.

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November 14, 2015 10:30:16 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Fuzz.........You can fix the start meno with Start10.

Just updated the three machines we have in my home with the 'November' Update. 10 is getting better and better. Don't wait or do the update via Windows Update, get the ISO's and install from those. Its pretty large. 

Here are the ISO's.............https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/techbench

Here is a good article about some of the changes in the November Update.............http://www.howtogeek.com/232176/whats-new-in-windows-10s-first-big-update-the-windows-10-fall-update/

 

 

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November 14, 2015 10:30:34 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Leo the Lion,

Fuzz.........You can fix the start menu with Start10.

Just updated the three machines we have in my home with the 'November' Update. 10 is getting better and better. Don't wait or do the update via Windows Update, get the ISO's and install from those. Its pretty large. 

Here are the ISO's.............https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/techbench

Here is a good article about some of the changes in the November Update.............http://www.howtogeek.com/232176/whats-new-in-windows-10s-first-big-update-the-windows-10-fall-update/

 



 

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November 14, 2015 10:33:13 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting RedneckDude,

I did upgrade, rollback, then fresh install to dual boot with Windows 8.1. Easy as falling off a curb.

 

One rig I just upgraded from 8.1, then just clean installed 10. No dual boot. I have one rig triple booted 7, 8.1, and 10.

 

Why do you have a triple boot?

 

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November 14, 2015 11:23:48 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Fuzz.........You can fix the start meno with Start10.

I have that already. Makes it look better but it still hase the W7/Vista clickfest menus.

What I do is change the folder permissions on the 'Programs' folder. Then I add it to the taskbar - right click the taskbar, select toolbar > new toolbar and browse to the programs folder.

You then have a fly-out menu just like XP's start menu

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November 14, 2015 11:25:15 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

As for all the conspiracy crap people keep posting - TL;DNR

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November 14, 2015 11:50:59 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

considering some annoyances with NVidia drivers will be holding off for several months yet

I use NVidia almost exclusively. No driver problems whatsoever. Hmmmm.

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November 14, 2015 11:54:25 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting TheDude23112,

Quoting RedneckDude,

I did upgrade, rollback, then fresh install to dual boot with Windows 8.1. Easy as falling off a curb.

 

One rig I just upgraded from 8.1, then just clean installed 10. No dual boot. I have one rig triple booted 7, 8.1, and 10.



 

Why do you have a triple boot?

 

So I can test skins on 7, and for a few other reasons. And I still like 8.1. Mainly just wanted to do it because I can....lol.

I used a great CoolerMaster case I bought for 20 bucks, used, of course, a mobo I had around, and a quad core APU.

 

Just a play rig, something to experiment on. I just wanted to climb the mountain "because it is there".

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November 14, 2015 12:25:46 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Win10 compatibility issues for hardware over two years old or so is still a very real problem. Anything issued on Win8 is likely AOK. Anything that started on Win7, let alone XP or Vista back in the day, has a lot of potential issues based on mfr support and, barring any of that, Microsoft's debugged and compatible replacement drivers (no, that's not a joke about mutual exclusivity - or maybe it is). Most PC mfrs are recommending their users do NOT upgrade - at least yet.

 

For now, anyone who started on an older OS, I would suggest trying a dual boot with another partition or HD/SSD to do testing, etc.

 

Just my $.02!

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November 14, 2015 1:16:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

if you did it yesterday, couldn't you have just done a clean intall directly using win7/8 key with the latest win10 from this month?

you don't need multiple licenses for multiboots?

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November 14, 2015 4:22:43 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

One of my PCs was running Win7-64. I purchased a Win8 Upgrade and decided to dual-boot and installed it to do so. I have relatives that are running Win 8.x and, as many here may be familiar, I have to de-facto support their computers, etc. since I'm the one with more experience. Anyway, when the free Win10 upgrade nagging began I decided to upgrade my Win8 partition to Win10. Currently I'm running a dual boot of Win7-64 and Win10-64 on that machine. I honestly don't know if that's legal or not. While questionable, I've seen nothing to say it isn't and I've spent some time looking.

 

What's interesting is that when I boot to the Win7-64 partition I still get the Win10 Upgrade nagging. My intent is to slowly migrate things to Win10 with some testing. Once all's working well I'll wipe the Win7 partition and have Win10 as the only OS on the PC, expanding it's partition.

 

From my current "moral" perspective, I don't think I have issues with dual-boot, especially since I don't intend to keep my old versions of Windows in the long term. Were I to use the Win10 upgrade advertised on my Win7 partition and end up with two Win10 partitions I would consider that a problem. Were I to start creating Win10 VMs on that machine I would definitely say I should have a new license for each.

 

Hope that rambling made sense!

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November 14, 2015 4:23:31 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

And for anyone looking to dual-boot I just found this: http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/

 

Peronsally, I just downloaded the upgrade and told it to install on an open partition I had previously created. No issues.

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November 14, 2015 7:35:48 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kazzerigian,

And for anyone looking to dual-boot I just found this: http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/

Thinking...thinking...decisions...decisions.

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November 14, 2015 8:16:24 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting alaknebs,

f you did it yesterday, couldn't you have just done a clean intall directly using win7/8 key with the latest win10 from this month?
you don't need multiple licenses for multiboots?

 

You can't clean install (for free) until you have upgraded THAT machine. Once upgrade has been done on a machine, you can roll back and dual boot a clean install of 10, or wipe drive and clean install 10.  You CANNOT use a Windows 7 key, or a Windows 8 key to clean install Windows 10. It doesn't work that way. Not even AFTER upgrading.

After a Win10 upgrade, you may cleam install Win10, for free, on the same rig, and choose SKIP both times you are asked to enter a key. Once installed, Windows 10 will activate. (Must be on the same rig you previously upgraded.)

 

Yes, you need multiple licenses to multi boot.

 

One common misconception is that once you upgrade a 7 or 8 rig to 10, your 7 or 8 key is no longer valid. This is incorrect. Windows10 does not change or use your 7 or 8 key, it simply replaces it.

 

You can still use your 7 or 8 key after upgrading to 10.

 

Quoting Kazzerigian,

Anyway, when the free Win10 upgrade nagging began I decided to upgrade my Win8 partition to Win10. Currently I'm running a dual boot of Win7-64 and Win10-64 on that machine. I honestly don't know if that's legal or not. While questionable, I've seen nothing to say it isn't and I've spent some time looking.

Why would that be illegal?

 

 

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November 14, 2015 8:21:29 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

It has been my experience, Ross, that in a triple or dual boot involving Windows7, 7 must be installed first. Otherwise you have to use a program to rebuild the MBR, in order to successfully boot the multiple OSes.

I use EasyBCD.

 

Quote:

EasyBCD is a powerful bootloader-modification tool that has a wide-range of applications and usages. It can perform a variety of tasks ranging in complexity and application from the most basic to advanced and highly-customizable features.

Please use EasyBCD with care, it’s a powerful tool that you can either make your life a lot easier or make it rather miserable by letting you shoot yourself in the foot.

EasyBCD is free for personal use at home.

 

 

http://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/  

 

 

You also need to be sure not to install 10 as an EFI OS, Windows7 does not support EFI and won't boot if the newer OS is installed in EFI mode.

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