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Kazzerigian
Kazzerigian
Join Date 05/2009
+11

0.64 Early Build Order

November 23, 2015 5:41:49 PM from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

Help a lousy RTS player out. I've moved up to Normal because Easy and Beginner are too, well, easy. But Normal has me destroyed easily. We all know it's about early build order in these games. What have you found works best?

 

Because I think it matters, I've only been playing on Deneb (2 player only, I think?). That seems a tough map for a normally below-average RTS player to defend once they're behind.

 

I know, this is going to change as versions change. But help me catch up for now, OK? 

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Kazzerigian
eviator
Join Date 08/2014
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Reply #1 November 23, 2015 5:51:36 PM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

Here is how I go about beating Deneb on normal. This was an abnormally good start for me, never really got behind. Still works in 0.64. I have changed my build slightly since this video, though.

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Kazzerigian
Kazzerigian
Join Date 05/2009
+11
Reply #2 November 24, 2015 10:32:17 AM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

Thanks, eviator! Nice vid and a good game. There are a few things I clearly need to change and learn.  Some questions if I may:

 

At the beginning, you send the initial engineer to a nearby metal extraction site, then select the Nexus and immediately tell it to build 3 more. Are you, perhaps, pressing the 3 key? I always click on the display of the unit I want built however many times. I have no other idea how you told the Nexus to build 3 engineers so quickly otherwise without such a shortcut.

 

I have the Neutral Defenders turned off. I'm assuming they would slow the AI down just like they would me. You clearly have them in-hand from the start anyway. Do you agree they may slow the AI down, too?

 

You have a different technique of managing the AI as a whole that are going to help me be quicker. Thanks again!

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Kazzerigian
eviator
Join Date 08/2014
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Reply #3 November 24, 2015 11:14:12 AM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

All build orders use QWERTY. If there are multiple "kinds" or "tiers", you can use Tab to go between them. So I hit 'Q' 3 times. I bet I could speed it faster by hitting F2 (idle factory) then Q 3 times.

Defenders would slow down the AI too, yes. But I'm not sure if the AI handles the game differently with defenders off. For example with defenders on the AI builds a factory first and sends out brutes to take other points. With them off, maybe it just sends out scouts? Nonetheless I think the defenders mechanic is specifically there to slow down the early game just a bit.

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Kazzerigian
Zorin1
Join Date 10/2015
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Reply #4 November 24, 2015 1:06:04 PM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

Not that I am that good of a player but I have noticed that the engineers take up a lot of resources to build.  So it is best to limit the number that you build at the beginning.  I like to jump engineers, so I will send one to a point and capture it then send the next engineer to the next one.  This way you have a few engineers farther away from your base.  If that makes sense.  Best to capture a point then to build at first.

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Kazzerigian
Kazzerigian
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #5 November 24, 2015 4:05:31 PM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

Interesting stuff. Thanks!

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Kazzerigian
Kazzerigian
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #6 November 24, 2015 9:09:28 PM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

LOTS of games played - well, started and surrendered or quit-to-menu. But I finally was able to win on Normal!

 

I know. Whoopee. But for me, an RTS-challenged player, it's a big deal.

 

THANKS!

 

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Kazzerigian
MnMShow
Join Date 09/2012
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Reply #7 November 25, 2015 9:29:13 PM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

I find it easier to beat multiple AI opponents at higher difficulty than a single one.  For example I can't win a one-on-one against a challenging AI since the last two game builds, however I have won against 3, 4, and 5 challenging AI opponents.  Maybe my long game is better than my short game, or maybe the AI long game is weaker than it's short game.

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Kazzerigian
eviator
Join Date 08/2014
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Reply #8 November 25, 2015 10:03:45 PM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

Quoting MnMShow,
reply 7

I find it easier to beat multiple AI opponents at higher difficulty than a single one.  For example I can't win a one-on-one against a challenging AI since the last two game builds, however I have won against 3, 4, and 5 challenging AI opponents.  Maybe my long game is better than my short game, or maybe the AI long game is weaker than it's short game.

I encountered this too. I think in the long game we humans are able to put together some monstrous death balls, whereas the AI seems to keep sending forward smaller ones.

I also wonder about some of the logic for where the AI chooses to attack. If you have been able to defend yourself well early on, maybe the AI will look for softer targets.

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Kazzerigian
Kazzerigian
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #9 November 27, 2015 5:10:27 PM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

I used to play SC and SC2 with friends vs. very tough AI opponents. Since, again, I suck at RTS games, I spent some time in single-player trying to optimize my early-game economy. I got it so I basically boomed out of the gate. Almost every time the AI would head for me first in order to cripple my economy. My friends would use that to their benefit, going slow and building some nasty firepower in whichever form, and chasing the AI off my back from time to time. By end-game they would have the AI edging on retreat and I could finally recover well enough to join in after having been defending and rebuilding. What was most noticeable was that the AI wasn't interested in completely wiping me out, just crippling me.

 

Similar testing with AoTS would be interesting. As long as we're not taking away essential resources, does the AI hunt for weak points or go for the strongest enemy - or some other tactic?

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Kazzerigian
TheRealWarpstorm
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #10 November 28, 2015 8:30:11 AM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

Right now, since the AI is not finished, all it does is go after VP sites.

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Kazzerigian
TheRealWarpstorm
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #11 November 28, 2015 8:30:26 AM
from Ashes of the Singularity ForumsAshes of the Singularity Forums

double post

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