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Ed1975
Ed1975
Join Date 03/2015
+10

[Crusade] AI is too easy to exploit diplomatically

May 18, 2017 3:19:59 AM from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

(Normal difficulty) - I got about 10 large hull warships in return for just for offering to embargo another AI! Admittedly I was allied to the civ who gave me the stuff, but it is still too easy I think.

Hope this can be rebalanced in future iterations, thanks.

 

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Ed1975
Franco fx
Join Date 04/2003
+59
Reply #1 May 18, 2017 5:41:50 AM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Brad has mentioned that the ai has been specifically coded to favor an ally, so I am not that surprised that they let you have the ships.

How many they had in total is important. I have see ai in Crusade with ridiculous fleets. Nevertheless if it traded away over half it's fleet, it should be looked at.

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Ed1975
Synagas
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #2 May 18, 2017 12:58:07 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

I seem to have the opposite issue myself. A lot of trades I cannot get very favorable, even though I have tried to get a fair number of the diplomacy research out of the way to improve it.

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Ed1975
Badbonez
Join Date 04/2003
+2
Reply #3 May 18, 2017 2:10:06 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

You can easily trade for the AIs colony ships and survey ships for tech, then disband them to get the administration points, or go ahead and use them.  This is extremely devastating to the AI, especially early game.  This has been brought up in another thread and will hopefully be addressed.

This trade takes place whether your are allied or not.

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Ed1975
Avatar137
Join Date 06/2004
+48
Reply #4 May 18, 2017 3:15:14 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Badbonez,
reply 3

You can easily trade for the AIs colony ships and survey ships for tech, then disband them to get the administration points, or go ahead and use them.  This is extremely devastating to the AI, especially early game.  This has been brought up in another thread and will hopefully be addressed.

 

I hear you and it should be addressed at some point. But there's a thought, just avoid using the exploit! I've known/heard about it for quite some time though I've never used it myself... winning that way just wouldn't feel "right" to me. I know, I'm weird but I'm proud to fly my freak flag!

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Ed1975
Franco fx
Join Date 04/2003
+59
Reply #5 May 18, 2017 3:59:53 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Synagas,
reply 2

I seem to have the opposite issue myself. A lot of trades I cannot get very favorable, even though I have tried to get a fair number of the diplomacy research out of the way to improve it.

I have had the same problem with ridiculous trade offers, with the bar set at equal. Since I hadn't researched much diplomacy, I figured that might be the reason but I am suspicious.

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Ed1975
Badbonez
Join Date 04/2003
+2
Reply #6 May 18, 2017 4:46:10 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Avatar137,
reply 4


Quoting Badbonez,
reply 3

You can easily trade for the AIs colony ships and survey ships for tech, then disband them to get the administration points, or go ahead and use them.  This is extremely devastating to the AI, especially early game.  This has been brought up in another thread and will hopefully be addressed.


I hear you and it should be addressed at some point. But there's a thought, just avoid using the exploit! I've known/heard about it for quite some time though I've never used it myself... winning that way just wouldn't feel "right" to me. I know, I'm weird but I'm proud to fly my freak flag!

I don't do this, but it needs to be brought to the attention of the devs because there could be a lot of unintended consequences letting this go.  Do you know if the AI is doing it to another AI?  I don't...

Quoting Franco fx,
reply 5


Quoting Synagas,
reply 2

I seem to have the opposite issue myself. A lot of trades I cannot get very favorable, even though I have tried to get a fair number of the diplomacy research out of the way to improve it.



I have had the same problem with ridiculous trade offers, with the bar set at equal. Since I hadn't researched much diplomacy, I figured that might be the reason but I am suspicious.

AI spawned trade deals seem to be ridiculously weighted in their favor.  I have yet to take one.   But I've seen streams where Brad was playing and some of the deals looked pretty good.  So maybe just bad luck so far on my part.

 

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Ed1975
erischild
Join Date 01/2012
+136
Reply #7 May 18, 2017 5:35:19 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

I cannot tell you the pattern behind things, but I have received lots of favorable deals.  Don't get me wrong, there have been plenty of one sided deals and vicious demands.  There seem to be several categories. of these spontaneous deals.  Little deals that are "Let's be friends." level seem to involve small value deals and small value differences one way or another.  They are tools to leverage yourself up in Diplomacy with that faction.  Bigger deals that are one sided for you are "Because we are friends" level.  There are similar levels for "I don't like you" and "I really don't like you".   Taking the offered deals seems to raise the Diplomacy level between your faction and theirs.  This might affect those one sided deals in their favor, but I can't see it being worthwhile with the nasty deals they offer.  Maybe if you are desperate to buy off the Drengin or something, but I don't know.  Like I say, I cannot tell you the actual patterns, or even if it is just me finding patterns that may or may not be there.

Then there are deals that are "You really need this, don't you?"  Those are amazing.  I stop and think and don't like the price and I take it anyway because I really could use whatever is being offered.  I've heard Brad brag about it, and I have seen it in action and he deserves to brag.  It would be lovely to find out it was somehow linked to Pragmatic factions.

I think that if you don't do diplomacy and don't do the early "Let's be friends" deals you are much less likely to see any of this interaction.  This makes sense to me.  If you play as an isolationist, they treat you like an isolationist.  If you play all friendly, they respond all friendly.  Mostly.  It doesn't work on everyone, and it doesn't work for everyone.  If I understand, it actually gives different play styles different play experiences.  That would count as an achievement in game design.

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Ed1975
Avatar137
Join Date 06/2004
+48
Reply #8 May 18, 2017 8:34:09 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Badbonez,
reply 6


I don't do this, but it needs to be brought to the attention of the devs because there could be a lot of unintended consequences letting this go.  Do you know if the AI is doing it to another AI?  I don't...

AI spawned trade deals seem to be ridiculously weighted in their favor.  I have yet to take one.   But I've seen streams where Brad was playing and some of the deals looked pretty good.  So maybe just bad luck so far on my part.

Definitely needs to be brought to their attention. Like erischild, I too have been given some pretty sweet deals and like he says, it depends on your relationship. Also, if you don't like what they offer, counter offer! Meaning click out the stuff you don't want to get or trade and try adding what you do want. Keep in mind that if you do do this, often times you won't be able to get back the original deal that they offered even if you put back everything the way it was.

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Ed1975
Ganoes
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #9 May 19, 2017 7:26:02 AM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

IMHO a much needed change to trading mechanism would be that administrators have to come from the receiving participants's own pool, so they are not included in the trade.

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Ed1975
jlowe212
Join Date 01/2013
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Reply #10 May 19, 2017 9:40:03 AM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

We can ignore the problem, but that's no excuse to not have it fixed.  

AI values ALL ships too cheaply.  Especially though, mercs, and administrator ships, but all warships are way too cheap.

Buying an administrator ship from the AI should require you to have a free administrator of your own, and deduct it from your total while the AI gets it back.  This completely cripples the AI, and the best way to beat the AI right now is to buy all of its ships whenever you have a chance.  It leaves it with few colonies and no starbases.  Not to mention no military.

Exact values may have to be experimented with, but I feel like buying a constructor or colony ship from the AI is worth an awful lot of credits.  That colony ship may mean the difference between one of you having a precursor world.

Also, I don't know why the devs think the AI performs well at constructing starbases.  It's not even a passable job, they always have dormant constructors stacked around, and ignore obvious places for starbases, like relics.  I admit, not all the time this behavior, but way too often.  And this is at Incredible and godlike difficulties, not easy and normal.

We can, and will, ignore the gamebreaking exploit, but that's absolutely no reason to not get it fixed.

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Ed1975
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+2415 sdemperor
Reply #11 May 19, 2017 12:31:08 PM
from Brad Wardell's Little Tiny FrogsBrad Wardell's Little Tiny Frogs

This problem was fixed in yesterday's opt in.

 

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Ed1975
Horemvore
Join Date 08/2009
+123
Reply #12 May 19, 2017 1:00:30 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Yesterdays Opt-In? Opt-In has not updated since the 16/5/17, yesterday been the 18th

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Ed1975
jlowe212
Join Date 01/2013
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Reply #13 May 19, 2017 1:03:33 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

What exactly did it fix?  I don't see any notes anywhere about it.

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