Draginol Draginol

Owens Corning Basement System Review

Owens Corning Basement System Review

My review and experience with it

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at [email protected].

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.

583,031 views 787 replies
Reply #751 Top
This is the worst mistake my husband and I made was to install this product in our basement. Let's put aside the HIGH PRESSURE sales tactics and high cost. I have a 4 page document detailing all of the issues we had with their subcontractors. Everything from, crooked sofits to bad installation of the walls because of the baseboard heating (which I was ASSURED) would not be an issue, to having to fire the first contractor because he did such a horrific job, to not showing up to do work when scheduled etc. Oh yes and the timeframe it took for the basement to be completed...well let me tell you. They quoted us approximately 10 days for the work to be completed. The work began on 11/16/04 and we had OC in our home until end of Jan. 05. Hmmm, by my calculations, taking away all the holidays, this is still much longer than 10 days. The only change we made was to have an additional door hung that we had purched, that tacked on 1 more day.

Another issue with having this system installed is that you can not easily move things around or hang a heavy object. We wanted to move some cabinets to another location in the basement, but hadn't preplanned for it so we were out of luck. That is unless I want to pay them more $$ to come in and make changes....UH NO! The color of the walls can not be changed and they do dent easily. After almost 2 years, I now have this horrible odor in the basement that I have not been able to identify and am begining to wonder if it has anything to do with the OC system. I have yet to take down the panels because I would like to think this is not the culprit after all we went through. I can say this, if and when the wall panels get removed, and if this is the cause of any odor, OC will have one hell of a lawsuit on their hands.

To everyone, STAY AWAY FROM OWENS CORNING BASEMENTS!!!!!!!!
Reply #752 Top
Sue, my husband and I made the same mistake. We're in NY. And although the company who installed ours is very reputable, I very dissatisfied with the product. It does dent easily and nothing is lined up nicely. I hate it. But what's done is done. Hopefully others will heed our warning. The system is garbage and unless you have money to burn, don't do it. I hope we don't get that odor. So far we don't have it but we've only had the system a couple of months. Please keep us posted on the odor issue and its cause. Good luck.
Reply #753 Top
We probably had the same installer since we're both in NY. Like me you probably paid a small forture for your basement. The salesman we dealt with was a liar and a low life. His name is Mike. We fell for their BS discounts and what not. You can't compare OC with a pricey luxury vehicle. We didn't realize how cheap it would look when it was completed. It looks like a big cubicle. Even the expensive leather couches we put in our basement can't dress it up. The walls dent easily despite the salesman's lie that they wouldn't. When we tell people what we spent they can't believe it since it looks so cheap. And believe me, we don't own anything cheap.
Reply #754 Top
Here is my experience with OC in Columbus, Ohio - (NOVEMBER 2006).
The company is called "OC Basement Finishing System" and is located at 2050 Integrity Dr. S., Columbus, OH 43209.

The sales rep (Brad) came over and was very polite and not pushy at all. He spent well over 4 hours measuring the basement and offering suggestions and/or answering questions.

The basement was straightforward. Only long walls, without many corners.

After negotiations, the price for a 835 sqft basement was brought 'down' to $30,200. This was after he called his 'manager' at 7:30 PM, etc. This final cost also included the various Flex Pay discount, 2% Showcase discount, etc, etc. I was also willing to pay CASH. (he offered me a 'loan' for around 20%, which I dont need)

That comes to around $36.16 per sqft.

OF course, he wanted me to sign the contract the SAME NIGHT, since all discounts only hold good for that NIGHT.

I wanted to do some more research and I made sure that I can cancel the whole thing within 3 days, without the 25% penalty...

When I did research, I found that some of my neighbors had finished basement thro the same company at a rate of $28.75 a sqft. This included various extras, like glass doors, baseboard heaters, etc, etc.

When I asked OC to do mine for the same sqft cost (28.75), I just got a one liner email back --> They cannot do it. The rep also told me that "square footage cannot directly be related to the cost as materials used, namely lineal feet drives cost."

So, I cancelled the contract within 3 days. I honestly think that even though this is a good technology, it DOES NOT warrant a cost of $30 per sqft.

I will get my basement finished the traditional way and use the rest of the money to build a kick ass home theater! (house is just one year old - new construction, and has a perfectly dry basement)
Reply #755 Top
Hi SJC-1,

How did it go? Did you use the distributor based on Canton? How much $/sf? Thanks.

- MC
Reply #756 Top
Hi, Has anyone had this done in southern NH? We had the OC rep in for for an extimate and after a little singing and dancing he came to $30,400 for 640sf for everything but the flooring. One provision was that we wait to start the project in January and sign them up "soon". We requested a very basic configuration -- just wrap the walls on 4 sides, jog around 2 low-hanging pipes, wrap an HVAC vent that runs the lenth of the ceiling, create the 4th wall one, 14 cans, 2 radiant electrical heaters, 3 doors, enclosed under the stairway, drop ceiling, etc. We then got estimates from 2 traditional basement contractors. One came back with a $27,000 price with a traditional ceiling and no flooring. The other came back with a $35,000 price with a drop ceiling and included $25/sf for flooring.

That puts the OC estimate in the middle of the two traditional drywall estimates. I was a little surprised given the statements made here. I expected the drywal estimates to come in much lower. Also, I'm a little surprisd at the sf price range -- $42/sf to $54/sf. My wife thought the first price was a joke. Any other experiences with OC and drywall basement estimates in southern NH (near Nashua)? Thanks.

- Mike in So NH.
Reply #757 Top
Have had OC basement for 2 years now and it is wonderful. Looks perfect. I have 1000 sq ft, 2 closets, window seat, etc. I think the problems some of you guys have has to do with who installed the system. The carpenter we had, supplied by the dealer, was a true craftsman.
Reply #758 Top
If you are considering finishing your basement with this system...DON'T. The sales tactics are shady to say the least. 3 days after we signed our contract the construction supervisor came out and that is when we found out what was REALLY going to happen. The ceiling height is going to be lower than we were told....being very tall adults this was important to us. We were assured not to worry by the sales man...not true. Well the story of surprises just goes on and on. So we contacted our Sales Rep and told him we were not moving forward with the deal because of issues not shared with us prior to signing the contract. The sales rep said "no problem" and told us the matter was resolved and our credit card would not be charged. Well surprise again....they charged our credit card any way and now we have a legal battle on our hands because they said we were past the 72 hour mark when we ended the deal. We would have ended it sooner if we would have known up front the problems we were going to face. Well just be warned there will be surprises for you not shared at the time of the sale. In my opinion this company does not play fair or honest. Stay away from them you will be sorry. You are paying TOP Premium dollar for this work and you will not get Top Premium service or honesty in return. You may as well go to the fly by night person...atleast you won;t be paying $50 a sq foot for the work.
Reply #759 Top
I live in the Coumbus area and had a simular experience with Owens Corning. Very rude and high pressure tactics were not appreciated and asked them to leave. I had an appointment with Champion two days later and my experience was much better, and quite a bit less expensive. Also, there are some benefits to the Champion product and installation that Owens Corning does not offer (insulation value, color choices, more lighting). Plus Champion is not a francise and they have been around for about 50 years
Reply #760 Top
Well, we signed the "contract" and we're paying about $41,000 to finish our 1,000 square foot basement. That was over a month ago. We've delayed them coming out for now. The thing is - I want out! I feel cheated and lied to.

They said the tradional basement costs about $60 per square foot to finish and theirs is only $40-45. Wow. What a bargain! And what an outrageous lie!

* Isn't that alone grounds for a law suit?
* Can't we who feel lied to and cheated do a class action law suit against these dishonest sales tactics?

I do NOT want this system installed and I do not want to pay the 25% penalty for canceling this project since I was lied to in the first place.

Any suggestions??

Thanks!
Reply #761 Top
I've been researching the Net on how to get out of this contract that I was manipulated into signing and found a web site that may help. It's called the RipOffReport and people can post complaints they have with companies on there. If enough people do this against Owens Corning's sales tactics, we can get retribution.

The only question is: Do we do this against Owens Corning directly - or against the individual companies from which we bough the system from? Seems to me like it should be Owens Corning because they all seem to use the same sales tactics, the same contracts, etc, etc.

Maybe we should start a report up for both of them? I don't know, but I'm going to do something today and because these sales tactics have to stop.

Here's where you can get more info: ripoffreport.com

Posting here on this blog isn't helping anything, but posting there WILL help!

PLEASE check it out so we can all work together.

Good luck for those of you who feel ripped off or want to try to get out of your contract, etc.





Reply #762 Top
Sadly, Wiseguy, I think you're screwed. There is a 3 day 'cooling-off' period, under which, you can get out of any contract that you've signed in your home. Other than that, there's nothing you can use to get out of a contract.

As far as lawsuits go, any promise that was made outside of the written contract is ignored by the courts. And by selling this product through independant dealers, OC is (mostly) immune to any suit regarding the sales tactics of independant dealers.
Reply #763 Top
Well, thanks for your opinion.

But isn't it odd that all the sales reps have the same sales presentation, forceful tactics, etc? I'm sure it all comes from Owens Corning, whether they're independent reps or not. They all use the same techniques. It's kinda like Amway/Quixtar reps are all "independent", but Amway can get still get into trouble for the reps bad sales techniques and the reps lying, etc.

Anyway, I'm still going to post it.

The local office for me is RembrandtRemodeling.com - the sole distributor for Owens Corning in Georgia, from what their web site says.

Either way, I'm fighting this and I think others should, too. Shady sales tactics and outright lies should not be tolerated. Why should I be held accountable for signing a contract under false pretenses?!?! That's just rediculous.

Of course, if they lower their price drastically for me, I'd probably go with them rather than cancel it, but their sales tactics need to stop.

And lastly, why don't they offer a straight price for everyone across the board instead of trying to get the most $$ out of everybody they can. That's just wrong, especially when they're lying about things in their presentation, scaring folks into ordering, pressuring them to make decisions right then and there - and then reaming folks with outrageoius prices that are totally uncalled for.

Well, see you at RipOffReport!

Wish me luck!
Reply #764 Top
I sincerely wish you good luck.

I have no doubt that the sales techniques ultimately come from OC, but the trouble that one runs into is that you'd have to somehow prove that they're trained to lie. And without coming into specific training materials or a memo from someone directing trainers to train to lie-- that is, a smoking gun, there'd be no way to prove that they're trained to lie. And I also have little doubt that no such materials or memo exists.

It is possible to prove a case without a smoking gun, such as using overwhelming anecdotal evidence (think Amway again), but as soon as OC puts a few happy customers on the stand, anything anecdotal will go out the window.

Again, good luck.
Reply #765 Top
Have you been ripped off by Owens Corning and their franchisers?

For those of you who feel cheated and/or you want what you feel to be unethical and deceitful sales tactics to end, please feel free to read and post here about Owen Cornings / Rembrandt Remodeling's deceitful sales tactics: www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff222958.htm

Your comments on their sales tactics will do much more good there than here, but don't stop posting here either. It's just more "official" at the RipOffReport site, action can be taken against the company - even class action lawsuits, etc.

Please come visit and offer your support against these types of sales tactics:
www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff222958.htm
Reply #766 Top
does OC have any competition? Who else offers insulated panels? Are there only two choices for basements? Drywall or OC? Last night I had my "sales pitch". Discusting! Told them up front give me a real price; I wont haggle. They didn't listen. Came in with $43k, down to 32K, down to 24K. Your site is very informative. Thank You.
Reply #767 Top
I just had an appt on Sat 12/9/2006. Guy was late, but I am open minded.Same sales pitch as all cmts above, "my mgr looking for a show case in this part of Cols, can give you 15% OFF." 50 DOLLARS/sq foot. To do the entire basement, $60,000 (about 1200 sq feet)-he did not rec bec of value of my house. He did not give me a brochure, nor written quote( I asked for also); quote was only for today, as they are not too busy at this time, but could offer another 15% discount if I was flexible on start dates. When I asked him about Champion, he immediately stated they were in court on patent infringement and that Champion would be out of business soon. He also quoted usual mold scares,--claimed a million dollar + house in Pickerington,Oh had mold in basement ( new house he claimed) and he refused to install system until mold was not a problem. When I stated I was not making any decision today, he ended the appt immediately.
Reply #768 Top
I just had an appt on Sat 12/9/2006. Guy was late, but I am open minded.Same sales pitch as all cmts above, "my mgr looking for a show case in this part of Cols, can give you 15% OFF." 50 DOLLARS/sq foot. To do the entire basement, $60,000 (about 1200 sq feet)-he did not rec bec of value of my house. He did not give me a brochure, nor written quote( I asked for also); quote was only for today, as they are not too busy at this time, but could offer another 15% discount if I was flexible on start dates. When I asked him about Champion, he immediately stated they were in court on patent infringement and that Champion would be out of business soon. He also quoted usual mold scares,--claimed a million dollar + house in Pickerington,Oh had mold in basement ( new house he claimed) and he refused to install system until mold was not a problem. When I stated I was not making any decision today, he ended the appt immediately.
Reply #769 Top
I've been reading some of these comments and I think you're all bitching about nothing. Who likes Salespeople? NO ONE. When has anyone ever ran to the door excited that a Salesperson was knocking? They have a tough job and I respect what they have to do. I am a business owner and without them where would any business be? Right...no where.

If you've had a bad experience with a salesperson than simply ask them to leave. I've read comments about 3-4 hour presentations... haha... that's your own fault for inviting them into your home and not having the balls to ask them to pack up their stuff and leave. You have that right. But to sit and listen for 3 hours nodding your head like you agree with what they're saying sends them signals that YOU ARE interested.

When you invite these salespeople out to your home, keep in mind... you asked them to come out. They are a guest in your home and should be treated with a little respect. At some point in your life, someone close to you... a son, daughter, brother, father, or whomever probably got treated like shit too. So keep that in mind when you're telling these guys to, "get the fuck out of my house"... remember, someone told your loved one the same thing.

This system is nice, but very expensive. I don't know about some of these comments claiming $60,000, but mine came up to be around $32,000+. That seems like a lot of money, but this is the third time i've had to redo my basement. The first time I did it, my brother and I drywalled it.. it turned out like shit. My fucking wife wouldn't stop bitching, so I finally hired a 'pro' to redo it. That cost me around $14,000 like 10 years ago (yes things get more expensive with time; like gas, houses, etc)... so now it's probably around $20,000+

So here's the break down-
-------------------------

Drywall:

1. My Brother and I- materials= $3,500+ ; time=6 months; wife wouldn't STFU
2. Pro... messy for 2 months= $20,000+

Total = $23,500+ wife bitching (not worth it)
------------------------

OC:

$32,000; 1 week to do the work; wife likes it...... well worth the money.

-----------------------
I like my new basement, but there was a weird smell to it... like fish. It's hard to explain, but its not bad. My drywall basement smelled like a dirty, wet shower... so i dont miss it.

Oh well... my 2-cents.


Here's your take-away:
- Don't invite these people out if you're not ready to buy (do your research online)
- Don't treat the salespeople like shit; someone will return the favor to someone you love.
- If you can't afford it... simply tell them and ask them to leave.
- If you don't want to listen to their speech, ask them to leave.
- If you buy it, get some air fresheners because the installation stinks.


Reply #770 Top
I posted once before but think it may help someone in the Columbus area for me to post again. My wife and I had OC out to our house but ended up asking them to leave (more than once). We really liked the product but after doing a little research we called Champion to come out. The differance was night and day. And I am convinced that we got a better looking basement for a lot less money. They actually have several color choices, they install more lighting and the walls are a higher insulating value. Our sales guy asked us for our business that night - We said we wanted to think about it - He said OK! He invited us to the Champion Showroom and he left. We went to the showroom and it really helped us to envision what our basement would look like and we decided to go ahead with it. We have now sent 2 of our freinds to Champion to get their basements done. The installation was perfect (for all of us) and the product is great. All three basements were completed in less than 2 weeks from start to finish. And all the installation workers were Champion employees, not sub contractors. Hope this helps someone looking to have their basement remodeled.

Reply #771 Top
OC man just left. What a joke!! Typical High Pressure, Mold scare Bla Bla Bla. Then comes the good stuff, the PRICE. $104.00 per square foot. Can you believe it. He wanted $43K for my 415 square foot basement. Oh! or I could pay $891 per month for 5 years. I told him he was well over 50% above what I could afford and that I can get it done the traditional way with drywall and such for around $15K, his response... OK thanks have a good night and he packed up and left. No counter offer, nothing. Not even the typical let me call my boss, nothing. Oh well I guess he didn't want my money.
Reply #772 Top
Thanks for the info, unfortunately for me it is too late. I just have my basement done and have mixed opinion about it. I do like the low mess, and wall accessibility. Aside from that i wished i did it myself. I have a 4 and 3 year old kids so you can imagine how much i can do without them being in the way and playing with my tools. I completely agree with regard to the predatorial sales tactic employed. I ended up paying about $40/sq ft. The salesman gave me an estimate for the basement without the specifics regarding material cost, labor cost, or any kind of breakdown at all. I wanted to think about it, he flat out refused to leave. After about 5 minutes, not kidding, 5 minutes of insisting to think it over, i gave in and signed the contract. In retrospect, i should have called the police. He backed off the original estimate of $48,000 to $36,000 (no flooring) but at 900 sq ft, i now find out that is still very expensive. I originally estimated to be able to do it myself for about $12,000 but figured 2 weeks for a basement is a good deal. Well, it actually took 7 weeks to complete the basement. Had i known that, i would have done it myself. They also neglected to apply for a permit, get electrical inspection. When i asked them, they say they will get an electrical inspector out if i "like". SO i said yes and decided to call the township, turns out i needed a permit also. When i asked them they said they called the wrong township and the third party inspector came out and looked at my 40/40 electrical panel and said the 3 added circuits made it over yet put a pass sticker on it anyway. When i called Owens, the manager said when he was out drawing up the blueprint, he made a mistake and counted the AC and dryer breakers as 1 each instead of 2 each, that he didn't know that the double breakers are counted as 2 even though they have 1 toggle. Likely story. now they refuse to add a subpanel unless i pay for it at $1500 after the fact. He gave me the option to have their people come out and pull the circuit and have my choice of people to come out and install a subpanel to power up the basement. I was hoping that they are willing to correct their "mistakes" to make it compliant but they already got the money and i doubt i will ever see them again. The 2 smoke detectors they were supposed to install they left in my electrical closet with a roll of wires and said they did not want to tap into my security system which is fine but they were not even hardwired and put up. This whole debacle is unfortunate as a good product is tainted by unscrupulous and unethical people. I guess you live and learn
Reply #773 Top
"And without coming into specific training materials or a memo from someone directing trainers to train to lie-- that is, a smoking gun, there'd be no way to prove that they're trained to lie. And I also have little doubt that no such materials or memo exists."

I must say this is a little coincidental but I have your memo and can answer any questions you may have about the unethical sales presentation and OC's process. I graduated there sales training at the OC science and technology center in Granville, Ohio after a week long boot camp on exploitation of human reaction and sales methods, thought to work by using scare tactics and sociology techniques designed for use at Gitmo.

Very excited and genuinely happy to help.


Thanks

TheGun

Reply #774 Top
My wife and I are looking to finish our basement and have heard about the Owens Corning basement finishing system. Alure is the only company listed on the Owens Corning website to install the system in our area so we called and had them come out for an estimate. The "design specialist" that showed up refused to discuss the job or give me a quote since my wife wasn't there. He said that since ~80% of people who "take time out of their busy lives to both be there" for the consultation/sales pitch end up signing with them and ~20% don't, they (Alure) don't care to waste their time with the other 20%. When I asked him if he personally was a licensed contractor, he said he was not but then gave me a litany of reasons why his company and product were better than all of the others. He went as far as to show me a letter from Nassau County that talked about another contractor (I won't name them here) that used "unconscionable" business practices, I suspect this was a scare tactic. Then he assured me that his company was better and more ethical, was this a confidence game? .. still not sure.

Requiring my wife to be present smacked too much of one of those hard sell techniques timeshare people try to use to play you and your wife off of each other. I haven't decided whether or not to call these people back yet but I will be getting quotes from 2 other contractors. I'm sure Alure is a good company but their sales approach leaves allot to be desired.
Reply #775 Top
Kid comes knocking on the door in St Louis yesterday wanting to set up appt for OC salesman. Wife and I been thinking about it so I agreed. 1pm appt set. Kid says wife needs to be there and I tell him she's working and won't make it. Sales guy shows up on time next day, inside the door and after "how are you" asks where the wife is. Tell him she's at work and he says OC has strict policy that both have to be there!

Huh?

He says: I just drove over 75 miles to this appointment.

No response from me.

He says: Doesn't that make you feel a little guilty?

No, I say as I open the door for him to leave.

The kicker is that I quickly found the franchise he works for--in OH--called the owner and his assistant calls me back and wasn't the least bit concerned about what just happened.

Found this blog immediately thereafter and am glad I only wasted a few minutes rather than a few hours.