Initial thoughts on Beta 3Z (a bit long)

I'm going to break this into two sections. The first section will be primarily bugs the second will be observations on game play.

Section 1 - Bugs
1. The AI races still aren't using the same tech tree as the player. The AI seems to be able to bypass the "Theory" techs at the start.

2. The Fog of War problem is still around. Whenever my range increases, due to colonizing or trading for a planet the FOW doesn't refresh properly. Ships still vanish beneath the FOW. A Ctrl-R fixes the problem.

3. On the Precursor Tech event - when finding the Corvette ship type...the word Corvette is misspelled as Corevette.

4. On the Yearly Report pop-up: At the bottom, where it summarizes your population growth: "Regardless of the causes, we have X.Y more people than we had before paying taxes." This would be better stated as "Regardless of the cause, we have X.Y more people paying taxes than this time last year."

5. If a research anomoly puts you past the completion point for the current tech there is no pop-up that notifies you of the completion. The game silently starts to research the first tech on the list.

6. At one point all planetary "Construction Complete" messages stopped showing up in an end-of-turn pop-up. The summary window in the lower right did still update.
Saving and reloading the game got things working correctly.

7. There is a "string not found" error on the planetary election pop-up. It showed up only once, when my party lost the election for the second time. All subsequent elections worked just fine. The "string not found" bit showed up just above where the summary of what losing the election translated to in game terms: -X to Y etc...

8. Morphing technology states that it improves combat ability but all the particulars regarding what it improves or what techs Morphing is a precursor for are missing from the technology display window.

9. Overlord technology - The descriptive text visible after researching the tech still refers to "Overlord" class ships as "Excalibur" class.

10. Terror Stars appear to have some work yet needed. Upon completion the graphic changed and it gained a movement of 2 but attack was 0 and defense was minimal.


Section 2 - Observations
a) The end of turn summary screens are very handy.

b) The new random events are interesting, especially the Precursor techs.

c) Beta 3Z is, so far, very stable. I had no crashes to the desktop.

d) The ship pathfinding problems seem to have been solved. Yeah!

e) We _really_ need some mechanism to assist in keeping track of where interesting planets and resources are in the galaxy.

f) I'm unable to tell whether the morale boosting resource is actually doing anything. Is it a civilization wide boost or only on planets in the sector, or something else?

g) Turn processing speed is much improved but there are still times when it's hard to tell whether the game is still processing something.

All in all this is a very solid piece of work. Thanks to all at Stardock who put 3Z together.
668 views 33 replies
Reply #1 Top
I agree with Magus. I'd like to add 1 item: Save Games.
1) how do I deleted old saves off the list without leaving the game? Could I just use explorer and manually delete the folder and *.sav file with the save game 'name' I wish to remove from the list?
2) the mousebar should be moved to the right of the name, not in the middle.
3) If I re-name a save game, it should move to the top of the list or, better yet, have an option to sort the list by name or timestamp.
Reply #2 Top
Regarding terror stars -- they destroy star systems not ships.
Reply #3 Top
I will keep to the same thread if thats ok magus to keep all Beta3z comments together. All comments following are additional to yours:

1. possible and actual bugs -
a)A space station disapeared! I am certain I didn't destroy it.

b)the new number value overwrites and places the cursor at the start of the numeric string on the trade screen this is GREAT but it is not implemented consistently for all three variables that you have to adjust-
- credits adjustment overwrites and shows a cursor
- month adjustments not overwriting at all
- Influence adjustor works as with credits
(overwrites) but does not show a cursor

c) Many buttons seem to need one click to activate another to depress them in some situations (common).

d) Clicking on the 'i for info' for space shark causes a long drive chug to load the screen (20 secs?) and when it does it says 'onster' (not Monster).

e) Gravity accelerators '?' info pop-up says-
"makes ships 20 0.00000aster"

f) Planet sort category lists seems to need to have the scroll button clicked on to refresh the list (perhaps from the last sort order when you were last on teh screen?. Often when you enter the list, the scroll button is at the top (i.e. one assumes that the top planet is best in the selected category class) but when you click on the button on the scroll bar the list order changes to the correct one.

g) I seem to be noticing that the map is not re-centering on the ship during ship movement if you move a ship and it has one or two moves left which takes it off the map screen.

h) I have had one or two empty 'ship boxes' in ships in orbit window - I got rid of these by highlighting the empty box and clicking the launch button, though there was no ship to launch. The empty box disapears but leaves a gap between the ships to the left and the right.

i) This is a little worrying but MAY be ok. I discovered the Altarians in a huge game quite late (Dec 2189). They had one planet. They sold it to me. I gave them love mushrooms, they gave me their last and only home planet AND 700 credits. They were right adjacent to the Drengins and may have been totally destroyed by them early game, but why give away your last planet when you are the best AI in the game??

Suggestions-

j) Could the GUI go gradually evil rather than good - bang - evil? Say with a gradual darkening and colour change and the odd button changing first?

k) It would be nice to 'buy off' politicians (high price) if your party is going to lose an election (like in Tropico). This would need morale and influence implications (i.e a desperate measure).

l) Some way to compare two ship classes' stats side by side when chosing between them would be nice, especially when the two classes are not visible on the same scroll list on the screen, (i.e. show '+value' and -value for the differences between the attributes in a pop-up if you highlight two ships to compare?)

j) A filter of some sort on social projects so one can see just projects from specific categories, e.g. Tech, Morale, Influence, Income, etc and sorted from max to min influence in that category.

k) I think that when you offer to buy a planet, tech or ship etc in the diplomacy screen and the other race agrees, you should not be able to keep tweaking down the price afterwards until you get to the minimum they will accept - a deals a deal! and it adds tension and commercial tactics.

Game seems stable. Sound still popping and wheezing though. I love the little shields on the planets - will the be one for each Wonder? Could the shields have an info pop-up saying what they give?

Steevo
Reply #4 Top
Great report. Regarding sound - make sure you have the latest drivers for your sound card.

There is now a propaganda slider in the details screen where you can basically buy off the people. It's not fully implemented but it shoudl do what you're looking for.
Reply #5 Top
Some extra comments,

-event window is often 1 turn behind the actual event (I build a project, up pops the planet screen. Next turn the event window logs the completion)

-is monster max HP ment to be so high? Monsters ogften appear at HP=50/497. Is this to force you to destroy them quickly?

- I've had a recurrance of the info screen getting stuck between ship display and planet display. A reload fixes the problem, but until fixed no ship is moveable.

- Could there please be some explanation window pop up when you change to good/neutral or evil. New players wuill be totally confused.

- Dumb settings are still too powerful for new players. The AI is ok and not aggressive, but very often has 10,000's of credits. It can just build ships very rapidly, capturing all resources.

- I have again seen two starbases at the same spot.

Looking good,

Paul
Reply #6 Top
About the GUI that Steevodeevo mentions, perhaps start at neutral and go either good or bad? Have the good one be white or something?
Reply #7 Top
One more bug (in 3Z and 3Z1) - if you click on Earth and then Details, you get a crtash to desktop. No other planet seems to have this problem.
Reply #8 Top
Here's one I noticed: I got the message that says [paraphrased] "It is rumored that the Altarians are ...something...They report that they have a military strength of 238....etc." This type of thing is very cool, except that it happened early in the game before I made contact with anyone. Who are they Altarians? And who are the rumors coming from?
This brings up an interesting point...when I DO make contact with another race and become friendly with them, shouldn't I be able to buy knowledge of the galaxy from them, including knowledge f other races? Shouldn't i be able to buy reconnaisance?

Great Game!
Reply #9 Top
I just had something similar in a new game started in a Gigantic galaxy with Dumb AI.

Just a few turns into the game I got a message from the Drengin saying that they were surrendering to me! This was before making contact with any other civ, plus it turns out the Drengin were over on the other side of the galaxy.
Reply #11 Top
You do start at neutral and good is white.
Reply #12 Top
The game is teriffic and the difficulty level is close to being right....tweak it down a little but keep it on the hard side of things.

More and deeper diplomacy is good, epecially targeting specific planets.

Might be nice to have a level of deadly drones that acted like one-shot missles against ships. Make them fairly inexpensive to crank out.

All in all it looks great!
Reply #13 Top
Does anybody else find a parallel between the improving game and actual game play? Each new beta is like a building a galactic wonder. :CONGRAT:

Bugs and Features:

1) I am still unable to center the screen on a Survey Ship. I seem to remember some of the other ships having this problem once in a while, but it has never worked on a Survey Ship for some reason.

2) The end of game summary has obviously been re-done, but the Total fields are still meaningless (each civ is credited with the same large point total).

3) In the OS/2 version, users could modify the text file that was used for projects and wonders. Can we still do this? There doesn't appear to be a .txt file holding the information. The reason I ask is that I'm grammatically obsessive and I like to be able to choose between UK/US spelling. Plus I love PUNishment, so part of the fun I had with the old game was rewriting the tech lists.

4) Frigates display as blank tiles in the planet screen, but have a ship image once they're launched. Is this done to indicate stealth tech or is it a glitch?

End transmission.
Reply #14 Top
Yup. Been seeing it since February when the Alpha started.

:CONGRAT: :CONGRAT:
Reply #15 Top
All looks good. AI has obviously seen some substantial improvements in how it plays the game. I haven't played too much yet, but these are a few small things I've noticed:

- Sometimes pop-ups appear over other pop-ups. This seems to happen the most when an alien race speaks to you, causing the diplomacy screen to pop up. Other screens will still pop up over it.

- The wormhole anomaly is still described as “somehting spooky.”

All the other bugs I’ve seen have been mentioned by others, so I won’t repeat them. I’ve had a few random crashes, but I couldn’t recreate them or get any info that might be able to help you.
Reply #16 Top
The comment above about the spacestation that disappeared I bet the "SpaceShark" distoryed it. I watch the SpaceShark distory one of my space stations no news item was displayed but the station was distoryed.


What do the little flags mean that circle the stars ?
Reply #17 Top
'3) In the OS/2 version, users could modify the text file that was used for projects and wonders. Can we still do this?'

All of the files in the data directory (not counting the Save Games subdir) are plaintext files containing the game data. The extentions tell you what type of data is in the file: .EVENT, .TECH, .SHIP, .ANOMALY, .RESOURCE, and .SBMODULE are abvious. .str is the language string data (something missing from here is the source of most 'String not Found' errors). .IMP are improvements, achievements, trade goods, and wonders (that is, everything under Social Improvements). The game preferences are stored in Perfs.ini, and is manually editable as well. The UP Issues are in the UP Issues subdir, and have the .UPISSUE extention.
Reply #19 Top
I'm noticing in some of the tech "narrations" once you finish researching them, that the text gets corrupted/cut off. I noticed this recently with Universal Translators - it stopped with "- Banking Center" in the middle of the second "page" of text.
Reply #20 Top
James - I think you are right, there was a space shark hunting in ando around that sector at the time - well guessed Sir :)
Reply #21 Top
Just jumped into the bangwagon, so I don't know if this has been mentionned before:
I had a problem where I was just about unable to direct my ships.
Instead of the ship stats on the lower part of the GUI, I had that helper telling me what to do in a screen I was earlier on. When I had a ship selected, two small bouttons where on top of the said helper, one being guard, the other was patrol, but i'm not sure...Anyways, they where the first to orders you could give you ships by double clicking on them. Saving and loading my game didn't fix it, but quitting and restoring last civ did.

I've also seen insane numbers on the summary screen at the end of the game, in tech and economy score, but from AI civ only.

There seem to be a memory leak or a endless loop somewhere in turn processing. In a small galaxy, I had quite a few times where the game would simply hang, sometimes with the GUI responding but really slowly, sometimes not (yet, it could be because I got bored of waiting). THe only way to fix this was to kill galciv from my task manager (was at 99% cpu ) and restore last civ.

Hope it helps
Reply #22 Top
I finished the game I started on Beta 3Z and have some more comments so I'll just continue the list I started above.

Bugs:

11. At one point in the game almost all my planets showed up at the end of the turn with no resources available. This a few turns after I restored from a save and it was as if I had set my spending slider to zero. Pulling up the planet summary display (the one you get by whacking the planet button) and double-clicking on a planet got rid of the "no resources" state and restored things to the proper status. I left on planet in the "no resources" state for a few turns as a test and it stayed there until I double-clicked on it.

12. When a survey ship, or any ship capable of it, is put on "Autosurvey" it takes a turn before that status becomes active.

13. The AI still seems to be able to run along with morale around 40% with a massive deficit at times. I've tried to pin down the circumstances but so far have not been able to do so.

14. There are still timing issues with multiple events happening at the same time. Example: A planet defects to me and the planet detail screen comes up. At the same time the end-of-turn processing completes. The end-of-turn results pop-up comes up and once you acknowledge it, which you have to do, focus on the planet detail screen moves to the planets that just finished making something. You then have to hunt for the defecting planet before you can make any desired changes

15. Terror Stars are listed as Starbases in the ship list with a blank graphic. It would be nice if the name would change from Startbase XXX to Terror Star XXX.

16. I finished the game with a technology win and there was some wierdness in the endgame:
i) Overview screen was blank.
ii) Summary screen - every race had the same total and the total wasn't a correct total for _any_ of the races.
iii) The timeline graph is blank.


Gameplay issues:

h) Terror Stars, once they become active, should inherit the abilities and interface of any other ship of war. It should be able to be set to Sentry or Guard at the very least.

i) The changes to the tech tree...it seems smaller than it was. Part of that is the reorganization that has gone on and the implementation of the good and evil specific technologies. I also think the tech cost may have been reduced a bit too much in Beta 3Z.

j) Some of the more expensive and esoteric technologies dont' seem to do much other than serve as a stepping stone to other techs. For example: Galactic Creation gives you +10 Hitpoints. Not only do I not see a connection between the tech and the bonus but given the amount of time it takes to research and the name of the technology the benefit should be far more sweeping. Same thing with the Star Creation and most of the 4D techs.

k) The minor races are still starting with an awfully large pile of cash.

l) The Pirates start, right out of the gate, with some pretty hefty ships. The only reason I was able to stave them off was because my original survey ship had some hefty bonuses when they came a calling.

m) The Ultradrive random event, although very nice, may be unbalancing with a 3x multiplier to ship movement.

n) We could use a map key for all the new little flags that are attached to the planets. For example: what do the unhappy face and skull and crossbones signify?
Reply #23 Top
Personally, I LIKE haggling over the price of a deal, but would be happier if the numeric entries for money, months and influence operated intuitively and consistently.
Reply #24 Top
I'm with you DaveO. I find the haggling part of the fun.
Reply #25 Top
I found a couple of new bugs (or at least new to me).

Once in a while the whole UI goes nuts and stops displaying the tech screen when new tech is acquired while messing up the ship display controls.

Then there's the whole problem of at least one of the AI's having runaway technology. This would not be all THAT bad except the game won't let me spy on them. :sniff!:

That's right. Setting any amount of espionage against the Alexians sets it against one of the major race AI's, not the Alexians. If these guy's are gonna be able to research tech a mile a minute, at LEAST I ought to be able to peek!