This week's progress on AI.

from Stardock Forums
The AI has really gotten a lot of tuning this week. If the marketing decision comes in to hold off on release by a couple weeks we'll have another public beta and you'll get to see some of this AI stuff.

The star base handling has been rewritten to be much more intelligent. Also, the computer when it thinks is necessary will escort transports and such. I find that really cool watching it because of the seamless way you see escorts get together. It's not that common since the AI usually doesn't send in transports unless it's pretty confident of space superiority. But it's still pretty neat seeing a battle hammer, a fighter, and a transport merge together from different directions.

The different AI personalities have been implemented this week. This gives the luxury of different races trying different things.

Also threw in a useless but fun feature that, as a gamer, I wanted in but it's kind of pointless. The AI will suck up to you if you're dominating militarily.

"In honor of your greatness and PEACEFUL nature we would like to give you this gift.."

I dunno about others but dog gone it, when I'm wiping the floor with someone, I want it to grovel. Expect to see more groveling in before the final release and vice versa.

The AI is also getting better at handling relations with other players. It'll try to get like minded civilizations to work together (this includes the human player too and it'll talk to you and let you know what it thinks needs to be done). Lots of funny text there too depending on your moral alignment. ;)

We're almost there stability wise. I don't think we have any crash bugs at this point. What's left are problems with strings goofing up (hard locks). But they're not common and shouldn't be too hard to clear up once we find the culprits.

There is still an annoying problem where the turn button will get stuck. You have to hit the ENTER Key to get th enext turn to go. This is due to the threading. I'm told it happens mor eon my machine since I have SMP but it's still an issue we need to address.

Still debating on voice overs versus captions in the cut scenes (which you guys hvaen't seen but there's several MINUTES of cut scenes in GalCiv). Captions are easier to translate. Voice overs are cooler. Not sure which way to go on that yet.

I think you'll be quite pleased with the way the AI is heading. We will be working to make it easier at lower levels. We'll be penalizing the AI's economy more on the normal level (it currently gets a 10% penalty to its economy at normal) so that it's a bit easier.

The goal isn't to have an AI that's unbeatable. The goal is to have an AI that plays intelligently.

We also hope to tweak the "good planet" seeding more. Right now it's pretty random. Would like to see this more intelligent.
1,356 views 33 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
wow! I sure like where the game is heading! Has some of this been implemented in 4-Z, or am i seeing things?

I really like your idea of the groveling part :D

The only time it seems to slow done was when i had autosave set to 3 months. It feels so stable it's up to 6 months. Can't wait to meet the new a.i. personalities.

Hope you all feel better.

by the way could some of the stuff in the debug file i.e. yor tired to bribe altarians, but they were too poor to pay so they are at war, be implemented in the espionage part of the diplomacy screen?
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Brad,

Can you please elaborate on how the AI learns from submitted metaverse games (or is this feature not going to be implemented) ?

How are you going to release "AI updates"? will it be part of new builds or as separate files?

Thanks!

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
When you submit your score to teh metaverse it includes information on what technologies you researched, what order you put them in, whether you took good or evil as your path, what your favorite ship was, whether you traded a lot or didn't, what star bases you went for, what resources you went for and so on.

These are all things that can heavily affect the gameplay. So if top players focus on getting a particular type of galactic resource, then that's somethign the AI should seriously consider doing as well.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I think that's a fantastic feature - compeletly novel as far as I amaware, its interactive and will build a great player community AND it's a great selling point to push out ;p
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Very Cool! Just as we get cocky the a.i. comes back a beats us at our own game. LOL I agree with steve, i don't know of any game that's even contemplating what stardock is doing.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Hey Frogboy,

I may be a lone voice on this one but PLEASE don't go too far in trying to "balance" the placement of habitable worlds, please. I'm really getting tired of this new trend in many random map games to keep everything nice and balanced. Take Age of Mythology, for example, where they go to great lengths to ensure each player has equal access to all of the major resources so nobody can whine about the random map not being fair. Bah! When I choose random map I mean random, by gum, let the chips fall where they may. ;)
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
I got to disagree with Gek. In my current game, all the AIs were in the top 1/2 of the galaxy and I was in the West side/lower 1/3. I managed to colonize the entire bottom 1/2. Dregins and Arceans, evils, were clumped together NW cornor and getting destroyed. After 12 hours of playtime, game is boring. Its just a matter of time. Not only should Frogboy tweek habital worlds, he must also tweek the placement of the homeworlds. I would like each civ to have a fighting chance.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
That is suposed to be counter balanced by the fact that the AIs know where all the good planets are off the bat. Do the AIs automatically go for the best planets in their range, or just the closest habitable planets? Do they compete with each other for planets or are they kind of hard wired to share planets off the start?
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
I like the improvements ;)

What still bothers me is the AIs willingness to trade planets for tech/trade goods at the start/early stages of the game.

In the current gigantic galaxy I play vs 5 genius AIs I have bought about 20 of the 30 planets the AIs own via selling tech/trade goods.

While this might be acceptable vs lower level AIs I would have hoped that the smarter ones would recognize the long term value of their planets. Heck, I even bought the homeplanets of 2 of the races if I recall correctly, 1 of them even sold all their planets to me :(

I hope this is a bug ;) Might have soemthing to do with the race having negative cash at this moment ???

With the current setup it is far to easy to win vs. genius AIs using a "rush to the trade goods and trade for planets" approach.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
Then try to get money from the AI, you will notice how much cash they have left :)
(then trade tech against the cash lol)
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
You did this with beta 4Z (bought their planets)?
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
I too have done this in 4Z, The Arcean Empire (was set to evil, and a fool) was stuck in the far corner with only 3 stars and two habitable planets in one system. They had a starbase on an influence reasource, we were at peace then I destroyed the starbase, next turn they sued for peace. For a lark, I asked for their only system. It was yellow result. On a whim i decided to sweeten the deal.. and after adding in 5 technologies the deal turned green.

I really don't think adding techs to get their only system makes sense even in a "surrender to you" mode.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Got 1 better, after conquering the last Dregin planet, I immeadiatly went to diplomacy screen and got all their gold and influence for a few techs. Did same for Arcean.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, it was 0.9.017, I think that is 4Z, at least I had to download a bunch of files ;)

But I am happy that it sounds like it is not supposed to be the way judging from your reaction ;)

Just counted the planets again, it is October 2183, the best AI owns 4 planets, the other 3 own 2 (1 has sold ALL its planets to me - 3 I seem to recall) and I own 44, doesnt look pretty, and like I said I hope for a smarter gameplay/trade from genius AIs ;)

I think I gave each of them about 9 trade goods and about 10-15 techs in order to get the planets (20 I seem to recall).
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree, there needs to be some intelligent planetary placement. My latest game, (AI Smart, 3-evil, 2-good)

I had the entire right half of the board. The other five civilizations had the left and there were no intervening planents in the middle for them to be able to bridge over into my area.

By the time they spread out, each had maybe 3-5 planets each, while I was fortunate to have around 18. Not really fair or balanced, though it was a change from the norm...usually quite the opposite.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Vanyel (and Brad),

Please don't forget the "luck of the draw". Sometimes a galaxy starts off better for the Terrans, sometimes not. Some of the wild swings in balancing I have seen between builds have been quite astonishing. I have begun to find it necessary to post counter comments when I read about someone finding it too hard or too easy. With any one build it seems that comments are all one sided even though I don't see the same thing as the comment posters.
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
I just finished a game with 2x genius, 3x smart where I won in a huge galaxy via military conquest. I never built a transport or, for that matter, any warship. I simply built every trade good (via purchase, if needed) and traded for ships, techs and planets. Last holdout was the arceans. Once they were down to three planets they traded for about 8 techs and hypercomputers(?). They were losing ~1 planet/3 turns due to my influence, and I kept trying to buy them out until they accepted.

Take it for what it is worth...

Scott

PS This was 4Z.

PPS The game was fun. No crashes!

PPPS I got the "your scientists have found ships" event twice. Both times on the same planet, and I think when I have seen the event in other games it was the same planet name? Maybe? Planet name started with y, has anyone else noticed this event only happening on certain planets? Maybe I'm hallucenating...

PPPPS Morale is spelled with an "e" :)
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
'Planet name started with y, has anyone else noticed this event only happening on certain planets?'

Some events that don't really happen on a specific planet seem to chose a planet and always happen there. I know there was one event that came up four or five times in one game in 4D that always happened at Sol (which, now that I think about it, would be a good place to locate non-locale-specific events, since it is the capitol).
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
I continued the game I mentioned above yesterday and in the end I was able to buy the last 3 Drengin planets (only race left) via techs, doesnt look good I am afraid :(

If I recall correctly the minor races rightfully refused to trade away their last planet ...
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
Hmm I also don't think that if you are not spying on the race you must be able 2 see how much cash the other race has 'available'

Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
Hmmmm.....the only real bug I've noticed is that the movies are now choppy. The game play has been pretty smooth and mostly the AI's are resistant to tech blandishments when I put their star systems on the table. They ought to BE on the table, though, I think, because once your tech superiority creates a really LARGE gap, that should be a sign to them to switch....

I haven't seen alliances on the table, though, so haven't been able to propose them.

Usually I win by lots of trade in both goods and techs and piles of influence. One game, I even influenced the Arcean's prize world away from them by surrounding its sector with star bases, all ramped up to the biggest amount of influence I could throw and by building all the influence-enhancing wonders I could...

That turned out to be the turning point in the game. All the other star systems defected to me, one or two at a time.

Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
Scott

winning a masive game and never fired a shot. Bought and traded for every planet I have 'taken' and traded throughout for Influence when I slipped behind. If I play as a manufacturing and trading 'powerhouse' I can buy all I need to win. One day I may finish a game before a new beta and post it :d

see all u guys on the Metaverse leagues when they sort them out LOL
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
I like the AIs sucking up to you if you are winning. Stuff like this is what makes a game seem like a real and living universe inhabited by living entities, rather than some dumb bots. Keep this stuff coming.

Grifman
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
I have my current game in its last stages (one major race with one planet and one minor race with two planets, cultural control of 143 of 144 sectors, took one minor race by conquest, but took all 4 of the major races by trading their planets out from under them). Bear in mind, however, that the major races resisted the trade as long as they could. I had an overwhelming lead in tech, trade goods, and influence over each one when they caved in. It was as if they had seen the handwriting on the wall and knew they could not survive anyway. All of the AIs were at the "smart" setting. Next time I will try the next higher IQ.