Graphical interface

E) I love the OS/2-version and am confident that the new one will be even better.

Ahh so it was an interface-question
missed it.

Well, I dont like the mouse-handling. (ship movement)
If the zoom-function will be implemented it'd be great.

I'm confident too that will be E), but we are here just to help it happen.
Agree with both interface comments. Ship handling is a :VOMIT:

I have to agree that the current ship handling is fairly poor, but I go with E). I must admit that I have only played the OS/2 version a few time though.

paul.

You know you don't have to use the mouse to move ships, right?

I think everyone has missed the point. This is (still is?) an _ALPHA_ test. At the beginning of the beta level of the OS/2 version there was a
lot of nice things missing that were staged in later in the beta. I expect much to filter in as the builds keep coming. This puts my choice on
this poll as F) - this poll is way too early.

BTW, has everyone except me quit testing or is it getting very difficult to find new bugs.

Cheers,
Jack

Alex, what you mean we can not use the mouse?

No, he means that you don't have to use the mouse. You can use the keyboard to move your ships.

Specifically, what about the current ship handling bothers users?

Since I designed both, let me explain teh differences:

OS/2 version:
Wherever on the map you clicked, your currently selected ship would move 1 move in that direction. Double clicking on the ship would put the ship into auto pilot mode and wherever you clicked the ship would go there. Keyboard movement was identical to the new version.

New version:
Wherever you click with your mouse the currently selected ship will auto-pilot that way. Keyboard movement same.

Now we could make it the same as the OS/2 version but there are some issues with that, for one thing, double clicking on a ship is not intuitive. And having a button that says "auto pilot" would clutter up the UI. And most usres today are pretty much used to being able to just click on a ship and tell it where it should go.

Well, personally, the most natural way to select an item is by using a LMB click. Now one cant use that since it might set a ship to that destination. That's about it. The other buttons or double-clicks doesnt bother me, it's just select=RMB that bothers me.

However...my personal choice would be:
select = LMB
autopilot = 2*LMB
menu = RMB (disband/sentry/whatever)

then we have the 3rd button that many ppl have today...any takers?

Or perhaps an option to map the buttons to whatever you'd like?

Because of the defacto standards that have evolved since PC games first came out I find that I expect the behavior Fredrik listed. This makes
the current GalCiv behavior feel (to me) clumsy and error prone.

Lets make sure the "autopilot = 2*LMB" meaning is clear. To me it means I position the mouse where I want the ship to go and
double click the left mouse button. True?

As for making it configurable, I think the system settings ("control panel" -> "mouse" -> "buttons" tab) should be observed first, then further
options only if enough people come up with useful options without impacting the game performance.

Cheers,
Jack

Correct, I meant double-click as you describe it.

ummm...but select is the only one that Im very sure where I'd like. If autopilot were RBM I wouldnt object, that's a good solution too IMO. If you need a menu it could be if you hold down LMB for 2 sec or so.

Many people do have a third mouse button, but I think that more gamers would have a mouse with a wheel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that there's a button with 3 buttons and a wheel...

Pear3 can detect the mousewheel message right now, but it doesn't make it past the WindowProc callback yet. I was experimenting with it awhile back when I had some free time, but I haven't had a chance to get back to it yet.

Some mice even have a "scroll point" designed to work with scroll bars, both vertical and
horizontal. The neat thing about this feature is that if you have the support for it you
can use either the scroll point or the traditional method of scrolling without futzing
with mouse settings, etc.

My mouse has three bottons and a scroll bar, but no "wheel". I have never seen one with a
wheel.

Cheers,
Jack

CariElf - many of the mice with wheel have a click action on the wheel too. For exapmle...in Counterstrike I have scroll through the weapons on the wheel up/down, and I have change ammo on the "wheel-button".

/Fredrik

Jack: then you're missing out. I can't live without my mousewheel now.

http://www.logitech.com/cf/products/productoverview.cfm/2821

I like Fredrik commands. I do not agree with John's 2LMB description. It should be 2*LMB on the ship to turn on Autopilot then one click on where to go.

Brad, BTW, it's not correct to be able to see where enemy ships are targeted. Can you imagine what advantage in case of war? I liked more the strips on the small maps or something similar.
It worked for the OS/2 for many years. This new interface system looks weak from all opinions (am I pushing it a little ). Think twice...

Cari, not all have even the 3 buttons...

Being able to see where enemies is going is something we have in for debugging. The final version won't have that.

As for mouse controls:

Regarding double mouse clicking - strongly disagree with having to double click on things. Seems like this would add to fatigue later in the game.

Remember, in the OS/2 version, when you clicked somewhere on the map, the ship would move 1 unit towards it. I foudn this unacceptable because it basically meant I had to click like crazy and that was error prone.

Right now, you can select with the left OR right mouse button.

However, we are open to suggestions on this as long as the solution does't involve double clicking.

We could have left mouse button always selects and RIGHT mouse button sends the ship on its way to that destination.

So left mouse clicking on any item will select it. And the right mouse button is effectively kept to just sending a ship to its destination.

Personally I like the idea of a long left or right mouse click (2 seconds or so) with an icon that
appears that shows that a target for autopilot is being selected giving an option to cancel
it with the esc button while still holding the mouse button down.

Cheers,
Jack

"We could have left mouse button always selects and RIGHT mouse button sends the ship on its way to that destination."


Sounds perfect to me.

However..that effectivly stops any ideas of having menus or so where ya could choose decomission, stop auto-route and others. But that's perhaps something that you didnt want to implement anyway? On the other hand it could be done with Jack's long left of long right suggestion.

ship details will be part of the bottom of the ui. it's coming.

and right double clicking on ships can always do various things.

ideally this is what most people would be comfortable with I think ( several years of dealing with user interfaces ) If folk are in agreement I can get more specific on other things that should naturally occur with these uses.

left click: to select

double left click: for default action for currently selected object. I.E. if a ship is currently selected and you double click a space other than the ship, the ship should move there. if you double click the ship you should get an info box on the ship. if you have a fighting ship and you double click an enemy it should attempt to attack.

right click : info on object or place you right clicked on.

middle button: hardly ever used in programs but would be handy for moving the space view. hold it down and drag space around like a god

scroll wheel: if the scroll wheel ( if one being present, else nothing happens since no input) is used while on a scrollable object ( i.e. hovering over the news box ) the list should move up and down. it should be focus targeted, meaning if you move the mouse to a different area of the screen that area takes focus and is a scrollable area it should move when the scroll wheel is used.