Large Maps

Even larger ?
Gigantic is pretty large already, but if this could get even twice as large (again, was enlarged already) it would be truelly very huge! (Which could be cool)

~SDC~

that would be cool, frogboy could make them so large that it would take us 6 months to finish a game (or is that to find the altarians who hid in the corner )

rich


~SDC~

6 months ?

Why not also implant email games, combined with gigantic (or even bigger)map and you can play for the rest of your live

~SDC~

I think it was said that there was at one time a 100 X 100 map.

I think such a large map would be cool,

It would make is much easier to build your empire in isolation.

You would need to balance your budget because you will not be able to trade.

Yet when you meet another major race both races will be really advanced.

hi technician

i remember that also, It would be really cool.

jut think what would happen if the yor got that power source and you couldn't get there unitl it ws almost too late I'd probably go for tech wins on that large of a gslaxy.

rich


~SDC~

The speed issue should probably be adressed, then. As it is, it takes a lot of turns for even the fastest ships to cross the galaxy. Think about how long that would take in a 100x100 galaxy. It shouldn't be done proportionally, though. That would take away the fun of playing such a large galaxy, but a minor increase in speed would be needed for a 100 by 100 map to be playable.

Asmodean


~SDC~

If I remember correctly, the initial OS2 version had a max galaxie size of 22 x 22 quadrants and todays current max is 24 x 24.
I suspect the performance requirement for increasing by 1 quadrant is probably exponetial.

From a playbility, the distance would be so great that you spend time without interactions with the other AI's players, where all the fun is in. Contact coud be hard to come by in a 10,000 sectors compared to 576.
Crossing a 24 quadrants galaxie for a transport, at an average speed of 4 moves and 12 moves per quadrant takes 72 moves, if you go diagonal, do the math.

Playing a galaxie sized game at a difficult level for your experience with the game, is a 40 to 60 hour "investment" in pure fun. To make it larger would be a serious cause for an increase in antisocial behaviour....

~SDC~

I have to admit that I find the smaller galaxies to be more fun than the gigantic galaxy. While gigantic has its own unique challenges, the game really flourishes on smaller sized galaxies where race interaction is far more important.

Paul.

I've always played with the largest available map size. The only thing I don't like is that your best producing planets can be rendered unusable for warfare late in the game if you start in the corner. However, I just finished my first game ever on a Medium map size. It was a lot of fun, and it was cool to start and finish a game in the same sitting.

I still feel like the larger maps are more fun if you want to take the time, though.

-Dave

Hum, I've never played the game, so those "size" aren't clear to me : I suppose the max size 24x24 your refer to is in sectors, but how many systems are in an avg sector ? What is the supposed "scale" of a sector in LY/parsecs ?
And what size are smaller galaxies ?

A sector in Galciv is 12 by 12 'tiles'. A tile can contain a single star system. The aveage number of stars per sector will depend on the initial conditions, but anywhere from 1-3 would be about normal. A single sector is bigger than the entire area of your main screen (from any snapshots you're seen) and takes an initial colony ship 6 turns (months) to cross. So 24 by 24 is very very big, contains hundreds of starts and 1000s of planets. The smallest galaxy size is tiny (4x4 sectors)

Paul.

Well, I think it would be nice if there was another galaxy, bigger then gigantic.
Alot people don't seem to like the hugeness of such a thing, ships that need to travel very far, 1st contact and trading will take longer, a game that will take long to finish.

Personally I would like that better then playing in a smaller galaxy. (but that's just me)
Well I also didn't agrea with the idea to have more speed techs for a gigantic map.
If the devs would implant an even larger size galaxy then the biggest right now I would be very happy
No loss for the people who want to play on smaller galaxies.
And if your hardware isn't fast enough you could always play gigantic, large or medium (and smaller)


~SDC~

Sorry guys, but I am experiencing some slow down near end game with gigantic galaxies at the size they already are. The slowdown is not as bad as before (30 seconds compared to 15 minutes), but I think for the most part we have reached the limit. My pc has a 1Ghz processor.

~SDC~

I think Stardock should still give us the option,

In the next 6-12 months alot us us will have a 3Ghz HT machine, may as well let them play on super-gigantic map if they choose.

Well would it hurt if they would add an even bigger galaxy ?
Just don't play it if your hardware doesn't pull it
Besides I need to give my Xp1800+ some work to do hehe.
But on the other hand, if it doesn't get implanted it wouldn't make the game worse, I'll be just be a bit disappointed
However I do not agrea that alot people will have a 3.06Ghz PIV within a month or 3, that is simply not realistic.




~SDC~

A FEW THOUGHTS on large galaxies: (Sometimes I have thots. I can't help it.) :notsure:

Admittedly, the slow down would be an inconvenience, but that would be outweighed by the enjoyment and fervor which a player has for playing in a larger galaxy. But I realize there also needs to be a practical limit in galaxy size due to *excessive* slow down. I wonder if a 30 X 30 would be feasible, without having unreasonable long slow down.


The problems of having such long ranges could be improvised a few ways:

1- Have a setup *option* to create more and better engines/speed techs. This is an "option", so that those who don't want it don't lose anything. Maybe this could also be accomplished through a text file edit.



Maybe the problem of not meeting other races till later in the game could be handled this way:

Allow the player to select to play against more than one player *from each* race.


One of the things on my wish list, anyway, is to be able to "pick" in setup which races I play against. For example: In a medium size galaxy, I might want to play against 2 instances of one race, 2 instances of another race, 2 of another, and 1 of another.

Developers, how about these ideas?

1- Would a 30 X 30 galaxy be feasible to implement and still not create too much slow down (For 1Gz)that would *outweigh* a player's enjoyment and fervor to play in a huge galaxy?

2- Could the following be implemented to better accomadate huge galaxies:

a) A setup option to provide for better engines/speed techs. Or
Allowing better engines to be edited (added) into the text file.

3- To help with the problem in a huge galaxy of not meeting up with other races soon enough: Could a setup option be implemented to let the user opt to include more than one instance of a single race in the game? For example: Play against 2 instances of one race, 2 instances of another race, 2 of another, and 1 of another.

Honestly guys, maybe we should experience the game the way it is before we start hoping for "bigger"? There are a LOT of balance issues that could become problems besides just ship speed when you try to expand the size of a game. And it's probably not just CPU speed that determines "slow down". I would think it has a lot to do with memory and god knows what else. It's easy to assume that "bigger" will be even better, but until we play it the way it was designed to be played that's all it is - an assumption. Personally, I just want to PLAY it.

--Soulfire

Think of the minimap... will someone please think of the minimap!

There are tons of ideas flying about in this forum that "might not" fit in to the game balance, etc. But I happen to like large galaxies, part of the time. Just tossing out things to think about. And they just might work.

But whether galaxy sizes were increased, *or not*, the following might be interesting, if it could work with the game engine, etc. For large galaxies, as they are **now** in the game:

Could a setup option be implemented to let the user opt to include more than one instance of a single race in the game? For example: Play against 2 instances of one race, 2 instances of another race, 2 of another, and 1 of another.

This would make it so that in large galaxies you would meet up with other races sooner.

Well you have to remember too: since the AI is multi-threaded and supposedly runs in the background, the more AIs you have and the larger the map...what effect would that have on the effectiveness of the AI? The AI has the same amount of time to work (the time the human player takes to complete their turn), but the computer has to run turns for more players and calculate more complex turns (larger maps and each AI has to evaluate and deal with all the aditional units of all the extra players too) in the same amount of time. Maybe it could handle all that, maybe not?

I still feel like until I actually play the game the way it is, why worry about wanting "more"? It is entirely possible that with up to 36 AIs in the game (including the minors, which from what I understand can be quite powerful) that there will be PLENTY to deal with even on the larger maps. Only time will tell I guess...

--Soulfire

Balance Issue ?

The game is different everytime you play on a different map. If you do not like a 100x100 map do not play on it.

It is in my option unfair to say I do not like large maps so nobody should be allowed to play on them.

As far as the game lasting months.
I play gigantic on my notebook and complete the game usually in about 4-6 hours. Mind you I do not like difficult levels. I hate it when a meet a race a they have twice and many techs and planets as I do.

I want to win everytime !!

If the huge galaxy already has 600+ sectors and 1,000s of systems what's the point of a super-duper-mega-galaxy ?
The game has been designed and balanced for the current size, it's not only an issue of processing speed/RAM : management of fleets and planets would be impossible, and you could end the game without having encountered anyone (tech victory) !

Another way to put it : would football be more interesting if played on a field 1 mile across, even if there was actually space for it ? Don't think so...

If a large map is not interesting for you do not play it. Want to interact with Aliens early in the game play on a smaller map.

PS. I am not much of a sports fan.

If you put in a galaxy that large, and there's slow down, you might not care. But the reviews will reflect it, and say how slow it is, fault it for something that wouldn't be an issue to a player who knew it was an 'extra.' Also, everyone with their Holy Processors of Speed will come on and whine about it. And we don't want that, do we?