Evil Stormbringer Evil Stormbringer

A camel with one hump or two...

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A camel with one hump or two...

from GalCiv2 Forums
Why not just make ships need a power/fuel supply? First, the addition of fuel cells or tanks would instantly drop the available number of spaces on a given hull. Second, a ship traveling at it's normal rate (let's say anything less than 8 since that seems to be the magic number) would incur little, if any, fuel/power consumption. Once a ship breaks the 8 spaces a turn rule, fuel consumption would rise exponentially. That being said, player's would have to be more mindful of how they wish to deploy their fleets and in what time frame they would get there. To stave off the inevitable "then how do you refuel?" question, the fuel supply could be regenerative (sci-fi to the rescue)i.e.: You send a fleet into an enemy's territory at full speed. Even though you make the trip in one, maybe two turns vs. the twelve plus it would've taken at "normal" speed, you find that your ships are severely drained of power, pretty much making them sitting ducks until your power supply can recharge itself. I think this would be a viable option for the devs to entertain. What do you guys think?
30,029 views 51 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Which fuel would be good for hyperdrive, ion drive, warp engines?


I think this is a moot point.


I wasn't endorsing it as renewable.
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Was I asking a question in the manner that endorses renewable fuel?

Sorry if I did that, english is not my native!
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Which fuel would be good for hyperdrive, ion drive, warp engines?


It's scifi, Stardock could invent any phony fuel name and say it's that. Kryonium, Wardellite, etc.
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Was I asking a question in the manner that endorses renewable fuel?

Sorry if I did that, english is not my native!


No, you asked your question properly, and it's a fair question. I was just establishing that, no matter what, starships need fuel. I think you can tell by the other's response they don't seem to care what type of fuel. As far as I'm concerned, the fuel could be poop (as I said in the beginning of the thread) Plus, I like anything that uses my physics knowledge, since it rarely gets any exercise.
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yes,thank you for clearing it up, I agree with you that starships needs a fuel, and regarding the posted article I was not just aiming at the game, that's why I like Deuterium answer (it appears in Star Trek, but I never thought of it as possible fuel for extremely fast ships in the real world).

I don't care about fuel usage in this game since I didn't made ships that could go faster then 6 moves per turn, but I agree it would be more strategic if they put that part in, and if they put fuel in the game they can call it whatever they want. "Poop" can do it if you ask me!


Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Deuterium answer (it appears in Star Trek,


At the risk of pissing off all the Trekkies in here, I never knew that deuterium was the "fuel" used in the Star Trek world. See, you learn something new all the time. I guess Roddenberry was a little ahead of his time, eh?
I'm just happy that they're "re-opening" the books on cold fusion after a few years of relative silence from the scientific community. Seems that the "hot fusion" guys don't want to lose out on all their great funding opportunities by admitting that cold fusion is not only possible, but leaps and bounds better than what hot fusion is/can do.
Go Fleischmann/Pons! You guys rock!
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It wasn't deuterium. It was dilithium in Star Trek.

Getting back to reality, deuterium must be our next fuel source because there's nothing else. Petroleum powers everything.

The moon is practically made of deuterium and uranium. The big problem is that to get it, we need to scoop up the surface, heat the sand and dump it back out.

With the currently scarred and ragged face of the moon, a full moon is 10 times brighter than any other phase. Imagine if corporate America digs up the entire surface to make it smooth. Some times of the month would be bright as day.

Anything for Haliburton...
Reply #34 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Anything for Haliburton...


Yeah, maybe they could even do some advertising and carve enormous "billboards" on the face of the moon! That would be so, so... CAPITALISTIC!
It wasn't deuterium. It was dilithium in Star Trek.


Yet again, learning something new. I'm not into Trek that much, except for the Wrath of Khan which was the best movie of the series IMO, so I wouldn't know if they used Tribble poop or moon dust to power their ships.
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
deuterium must be our next fuel source because there's nothing else


paraphin wax

We're researching this here @ DU, it's an explosive wax, the only problem is that it's not *as* combustible as fossil fuels. (It's something NASA uses in their rocket fuels)
Reply #36 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The capitalist forces of evil are at work in the field of deuterium.

Check today's Wired: WWW Link

The senator is a motherfrakkin troll. Check his comments on why we must go to the moon. It will be just like leaving Africa, d00d. It just so happens that he is the energy industry whore pushing for deuterium mining facilities, the elimination of the Moon Treaty and annexing it (like Antarctica, different issue) as US territory.

Going to the moon is about money. My biggest problem is smoothing out the face of the moon. I can't deal with the parking lot lights shining through my blinds at night. A full moon brighter than it already is and killing people over it is not my idea of sensible policy.

And we're not going to Mars. I guarantee that.
Reply #37 from Stardock Forums Top
It wasn't deuterium. It was dilithium in Star Trek.


Actually, Star Trek warp engines were powered by antimatter, and it was gathered as they traveled. Dilithium crystals were used as a critical part of the fuel control system; the crystals could "burn out" if they were overstressed, but they weren't the source of the power.

As for the "speed problem" in the game, why not just make the ship's speed proportional to the square root of the total number of engines points installed? This is simple from an implementation and usage point of view. (The same thing is already done for shield power.)

Also, it is a bit more reflective of other vehicles people are used to. If the speed of real vehicles were directly proportional to their power, you'd have a "speed problem" in real life too. Tanks, ships and planes may have up to ten times the power today of their WW2 counterparts, but they don't really go ten times as fast. Nothing actually works that way. If you swap out a 100 horsepower engine from an economy car that can go 100 mph, and put in a 400 horsepower racing engine, of course it won't then be able to go 400 miles an hour; it will only go about twice as fast (assuming it doesn't fall apart.) And it takes about sixteen times as much power for a ship to go 40 miles an hour as it does to go 10 miles an hour. That's also why slowing down saves so much fuel.

Maybe not everyone is familiar with the math behind this, but it's what we are intuitively used to. And a system like this would help keep the high-end ship speeds in GalCiv2 from getting completely out of hand.
Reply #38 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It wasn't deuterium. It was dilithium in Star Trek.


Deut has it's own space in Star Trek!

Sorry for the off topic!

P.S.

Kopema was faster!


Reply #39 from Stardock Forums Top
The capitalist forces of evil are at work in the field of deuterium.

Check today's Wired: WWW Link">Link

The senator is a motherfrakkin troll. Check his comments on why we must go to the moon.


Actually, there's deuterium in seawater -- a LOT of it. The article talks about getting something called "helium-3" from the moon, which is a bit different. As for why we might want that instead of deuterium (or "hydrogen-2") in potential fusion reactors, that's a purely theoretical argument at this stage. At any rate, establishing a moonbase today based on this kind of speculation would be pretty darned goofy.
Reply #40 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Wheel, that second one was great!

"One of the earliest images of Titan’s surface reveals a spot the size of Arizona with what appears to be the lighting of a metropolis. There is more light in this area than Arizona at night. We can only assume that the makers of this light and activity are enemies of freedom and hate our way of life.

Let the enemies of freedom know what Japanese video game designers know: All your base are belongs to us."
Reply #41 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
At any rate, establishing a moonbase today based on this kind of speculation would be pretty darned goofy.


The US hasn't demonstrated rational foresight on these kind of things. Bush pulled out of the Outer Space Treaty of 1969 and one of his first acts was to establish the Space Forces as a new branch of the Armed Services.

The US will take Antarctica, militarize space and take the moon. All by force, of course, because force is profitable.

Keynesian economics... breaking things is good for the economy. Throw a rock at a shop window and you serve your neighbors. Somebody needs to provide wood for temporary security. Somebody needs to make the glass. Somebody needs to repair the frame. Somebody needs to install it. Scale it up to Iraq and "nation building" in general.

That's our government at work.
Reply #42 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That's our government at work.


Sorry to do this, but I have to... DRAG THEM ALL OUT OF WASHINGTON AND SHOOT THEM AS WAR CRIMINALS AND ENEMIES OF THE STATE, period.
Reply #43 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Wheel, that second one was great!


/Me takes a bow.

Thank you, thank you.
Reply #44 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm surprised that Brad did not expect players to build ships faster than 8 moves per turn. A ship with only 1 Hyper Warp III Drive will have movement 10 and each additional engine adds another 6. With the change made to miniaturization made in v1.3, with ultimate miniaturization, there is lots of room for engines!
Reply #45 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm surprised that Brad did not expect players to build ships faster than 8 moves per turn.


This puzzled me too when I read his reply. Guess I never thought to ask the question though. That was why I figured the easiest work around would be to throw in a power supply. But overall, it is strange that he wouldn't have foreseen this.
Reply #46 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The US will take Antarctica, militarize space and take the moon. All by force, of course, because force is profitable.


Of course this may happen in 60 years or so, after we pull out of Iraq.

Bush pulled out of the Outer Space Treaty of 1969 and one of his first acts was to establish the Space Forces as a new branch of the Armed Services.


Kind of like Space Rangers? Maybe they will wear all different color uniforms like the Power Rangers. When Clinton was in office the biggest change in color the military faced was the possibility of pink combat boots.

DRAG THEM ALL OUT OF WASHINGTON AND SHOOT THEM AS WAR CRIMINALS AND ENEMIES OF THE STATE, period.


Whoa Whoa Whoa there big fella, don't go and get your panties all in a bunch! You know, some of us actually live and work there and have nothing to do with politics. I mean, in the game I am a huge war criminal, you know, Xenocide and all that, but man, it is a game!

Lastly, I am not a huge Trek fan either, but how many different types of fuel did Enterprise actually use?

that's why I like Deuterium answer (it appears in Star Trek,


It wasn't deuterium. It was dilithium in Star Trek.


Actually, Star Trek warp engines were powered by antimatter,


I am so confused!

On a side note, I hardly ever created a ship that had a speed value of more than 25. Last night I made a Yor troop ship with a speed of 93... Good Golly could that baby haul on a medium map. I could load, launch, navigate the entire map, and conquer a world, in a single turn. I wonder if the ship was powered by Deuterium... err... Dilithium... or was that Antimatter?


Reply #47 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
DRAG THEM ALL OUT OF WASHINGTON AND SHOOT THEM AS WAR CRIMINALS AND ENEMIES OF THE STATE, period.


Whoa Whoa Whoa there big fella, don't go and get your panties all in a bunch! You know, some of us actually live and work there and have nothing to do with politics.


Okay, I should have been a little more specific... drag the politicians, their intern sex slaves, and the crack heads out of Washington and shoot them as war criminals and enemies of the state. Is that better now?
Reply #48 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Evil,

I object to the revolution executing Washington D.C. interns. The female to male ratio in DC is 9 to 1. 99% of them are good kids. Keep the focus on asshats in power.

The last two Republican Congress sessions have emaciated the power of Congress and Bush's picks for the Supreme Court have done the same to the judicial branch.

The judicial branch disease is particularly nasty because the attorneys aren't elected and never cross the mind. Working for the justice system used to be about merit. Now it's about loyalty to Bush. Why they would care about some 25 year old attorney in the provinces is beyond me. That's like not promoting a lieutenant because he disagrees with some general he'll never ever meet.

Expanding on the military comparison. You can get to full bird (colonel) on merit alone. After that, it's all politics. That's how most of the government once worked. Until the upper levels, it's too insane to use politics as a job test.

I think databases and computer cost (being extremely cheap) changed all of that.
Reply #49 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You can get to full bird (colonel) on merit alone. After that, it's all politics. That's how most of the government once worked. Until the upper levels, it's too insane to use politics as a job test.


I tend to agree with this part Wheel. Petty or part-time politics can start as low as E-7 in some branches though.

And a tidbit of info since we are talking about fuel...

USS Kitty Hawk would burn 1 gallon of fuel for every foot it traveled at 21 knots.
Reply #50 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I object to the revolution executing Washington D.C. interns. The female to male ratio in DC is 9 to 1. 99% of them are good kids. Keep the focus on asshats in power.


Agreed. We don't want to hurt the women since we'll need them to repopulate the world in our great images!
Now let's see who misconstrues that one.