Draginol Draginol

Don't antagonize the admins

Don't antagonize the admins

Why tempt fate?

I decided to exile one of our more vocal users for a day after sending him an email. I had meant to do it last week when he got caught using a fake user to create a second account to disparage his various enemies (real or imagined). It was designed as a shot across the bow. I don't really like exiling anyone because it takes energy to do that (i.e. I don't like doing things that negative affect others) when I really have a lot of other things to work on.

Things with JoeUser.com have gone differently than we had imagined. Net communities are fairly predictable in their evolution. You attract a hard core group at the start and then you take a very very hard line relatively early on to drive off the napoleaonic wannabes. You see, in most net communities, you have people "regulars" who post often and believe that their very presence gives them "power" to dictate the rules to others. Healthy net communities discourage these people because they end up trying to build tight cliques that end up abusing their soft power on newcomers who don't fall into line.  So what we've done on our other net communities is try to discourage those kinds of people from getting too comfortable.

On WinCustomize.com, we lost about a third of the regulars in the first few months. We intentionally took a hard line on a range of issues that later on we became much softer on. I think the difference on JoeUser.com is that the authority is less delegated. On WinCustomize, there were several of us who were very publicly available to cut the would-be Napolean's at the knees. That's unlike here at JoeUser.

As I go through the forums I already see what I consider to be an unhealthy clique building. Not one particular clique but several. Over time, these cliques can exert a soft power to intimidate newcomers to the site and hence be able to mold the overall atmosphere at the site. Such cliques tend to be elitist. The same thing has gone on at our other sitmes from time to time. The difference is that there hasn't yet been a mass exodus of regulars from JoeUser. The reason this sort of thing is important is because the regulars who leave are quite certain that their departure will spell the doom of a given site that they frequent. I remember on WinCustomize the prediction that the site was going to "flop" because so many "old timers" from "the community" had abandoned the site because we would not recognize their inherent widsom and make ourselves subservient to it.

I think on JoeUser that things are much more complex because we want people to feel like their blogs are their own. They should feel comfortable to write about whatever they want. We don't want to hve to censor people....On the other hand, we (and me in particular) don't want people using our resources to trash us. Why should I put all this energy (and money) into the site so some guy can come on and harass me from blog to blog or use his own blog to trash me?  You can see the cunumdrum.

So here's my two cents (train of thought) on the matter:

1) Unless you're paying for yoru blog, you're not a customer. I'm not your servant. I don't work for you. Show some respect for those providing something to you free of charge. That respect can come in the form of simply not going out of your way to piss on the admins.

2) If you write an article and I come onto it and disagree with you, then I'm fair game. If I'm nasty in my response (in your opinion) you're free to return the favor in your response to me. You can even blacklist me from your blog if you find something I write obnoxious. You won't be penalized for blast listing me and in fact it might just be a sign of sound judgement on your part. But related to that, admins can't truly be blacklisted. It simply makes a note by the message box that this user has black listed me. I can still respond and reserve the right to in a pinch but will make an honest effort to respect your wishes.

3) I make no qualms about fairness. Use common sense. We're not on equal ground here. One's "soft power" of influence is meaningless if your opposition is an Admin. Besides that, soft power is related to the popularity of the articles. I have 4 of the top 5 most popular articles presently and 7 of the top 10. So right now the "admins" have the soft power and the hard power. So users shouldn't imagine leverage that they don't have.

4) It's not about meanness or niceness. It's about respect for one another. Respect others and you will find yourself receiving in return. Some of the best users on this site have very different philosphies than I do but they are intelligent and respectul of others and get it in return.

So that's my little rant for the evening. ;)

 

 

8,237 views 40 replies
Reply #26 Top

I don't really see any cliques centered around me (Brad).

As for Dan, creating an alias for the express reason to trash other people is kind of low. Just so that we're clear: It's not the creating of the alias that I objected to so much. It is the creation of the alias to tear down others so that he could keep his main ID clean.

I'm posting as myself (Brad Wardell handle Draginol). I expose myself. So i tend to not look kindly on people who trash me not as themselves but from behind a fake user.

But rather than recognizing his mistake and trying to be a bit decent to the people who had harshly attacked with his alias, he just continued on. Apparently in one place he called me a "prick". Here in this post, even after being put on warning, he referred to me as having a "fragile ego". Those who know me know that I'm rarely driven by "ego" (fragile or otherwise). It's just gratuitious antagonism and ultimately, there's no reason why I or any other admin has to put up with that kind of nonsense.

Reply #27 Top
"But rather than recognizing his mistake and trying to be a bit decent to the people who had harshly attacked with his alias, he just continued on. Apparently in one place he called me a "prick". Here in this post, even after being put on warning, he referred to me as having a "fragile ego". Those who know me know that I'm rarely driven by "ego" (fragile or otherwise). It's just gratuitious antagonism and ultimately, there's no reason why I or any other admin has to put up with that kind of nonsense."

I find it much more effective to leave antagonists alone and ultimately let them bring themselves down rather than trying to attack them back. Ironically, in doing so you are almost lowering yourself to their level. Besides, it's a lot more fun to watch other people come to the realization that this is a bad person, than to get that bad taste in your mouth every time you attack someone back.

Whatever, there will always be stupid people in the world, and maybe each of us just has to have their own way to deal with them.
Reply #28 Top
It’s a shame Dan Kashew was exiled. After Dan said all those terrible things about Brad, he seems non apologetic, even defiant, so this must not be a big deal to him.

I think Jeremy is right, an elitist clique have formed an unholy alliance. A consortium of megalomaniacal elitist users religiously add points to each others chat sessions, The elitists have effectively turned the point system into a popularity contest rather than a reward for quality content, something to think about.
Reply #29 Top

However, I assume it is at least break even due to ads (if not... I am even more impressed you pay for the massive bandwidth and space needed).

hehehehe....yeah.  That would be nice.  But, no, ads don't pay jack anymore.  This isn't a simple site, either.  There are 3 people who work on code, graphics, asp, database, etc.  Then, you have the other people who admin it, test it, etc.  It also requires a great deal of bandwidth and a hefty server.  Ads don't even come close to even paying for one of those points.

Reply #30 Top
It’s a shame Dan Kashew was exiled.


Are you EVER going to give that up?!

A consortium of megalomaniacal elitist users religiously add points to each others chat sessions, The elitists have effectively turned the point system into a popularity contest rather than a reward for quality content, something to think about.



I suppose you'd consider me part of the 'clique' who "chat" and are in this for a "popularity contest"?

You have a really short memory, Anthony.
Reply #31 Top
"hehehehe....yeah.  That would be nice.  But, no, ads don't pay jack anymore.  This isn't a simple site, either.  There are 3 people who work on code, graphics, asp, database, etc.  Then, you have the other people who admin it, test it, etc.  It also requires a great deal of bandwidth and a hefty server.  Ads don't even come close to even paying for one of those points."

So the Admins of the site pay for it out of their own pockets? That's incredible. Where does the motivation come from? I know If I hosted a website like this I would either charge for admission or plaster the place with ads to pay for it!
Reply #32 Top
So the Admins of the site pay for it out of their own pockets? That's incredible. Where does the motivation come from? I know If I hosted a website like this I would either charge for admission or plaster the place with ads to pay for it!


Brad~I am with Darius Farrar on this one big time. This site is the coolest one I have ever been on before. And it still amazes me that it doesn't cost a cent for a blogger to join! Of course I am grateful for that fact for two reasons. 1) It is very generous of you to do this for all the bloggers here. 2) I am a starving poet big time, so saving those precious pennies is always a plus. .

So I am glad to finally get the chance to thank you more directly. Thanks for your generosity and patience. I am VERY glad to have discovered this site, and I know many others feel the same way too. And IF and WHEN there does come a time that the site is no longer a free one? I will happily save up all my pennies, so that I may use them to continue on blogging here, and spending many enjoyable hours with some of the coolest folks I have ever known Thanks again!

~MadPoet
Reply #33 Top
The elitists have effectively turned the point system into a popularity contest rather than a reward for quality content, something to think about


You really are quite bitter aren't you mate? let it go bro.

Why would you post quality content for no reason? It's all a means to an end - popularity. Although - as I did say earlier, GermyG's idea for the points decreasing with each subsequent post is a good one.

BAM!!!
Reply #34 Top

Darius Farrar, this site is owned by Stardock.  We have a bunch of sites and products.  www.wincustomize.com is an example of one of our sites if you want to check it out.

Joeuser was Brad's personal blog.  He had so much fun with it, he decided to get our web developers on it and turn it into a public blog site. 

Of course, that does prove that people are right about Brad being one of those greedy businessmen- he funds this blog instead of padding his pocket.  That greedy bastard!   Of course, I think if *I* were in his shoes, I'd pad my pocket

Reply #35 Top

Eventually JoeUser will have premium featurs so that bloggers can really customize their blg. Then we'll have a nominal monthly fee for those people who want those features.

The real secret to getting your blog popular isn't a secret. It's going out and promoting it. There are numerous search engines and RSS feeds you could sign your blog up into so that every time you updated your blog it would get listed on lots of other sites too and bring in the traffic.

Don't peple wonder why my blog has 10X as much monthly points than the ohters? It's not from being featured, I can tell you that much. It's because I promote my blog articles elsewhere and get sites to link back to them. Comments help a little but they won't make that big a difference.

Reply #36 Top
brad, i wanted to let you know that for the first time EVER i "name-dropped" in my most recent blog. (entitled "split-level scuffling").

as the name i dropped was yours, and the article i wrote was based on my reaction to this article of yours, i thought i should pay you the courtesy of letting you know. my intended "comment" became rather lengthy, so i made it an article instead, to spare your readers

and i'd like to add my own thanks for this article. i found it most thought provoking.

mig.
Reply #37 Top

It's okay to name-drp if you are responding to  a particular article.

For example, if I write an article about US action in Iraq that you disagree with, you are certainly entitled to write an article disagreeing with it and referring to  the article you disagree with or even th eperson you disagree with.

On th eother hand, an article that goes "Well, as you know, Brad is a prick who should be flogged fwith his own spleen" would be less welcome.

Reply #38 Top
brad, my article was technically neither of those things.

i'd say it was more of a plea to every blogger on ju to stick with it ... to ride out the adjustment hiccups and stay committed to the community they helped create.

the best thing about the ju community is its' diversity. i know this invariably breeds tension of a particular kind. a highly eclectic mix of tastes and opinions has no choice but to eventually clash somewhere.

the "us and them" atmosphere developing is just a result of the fact that, even in so called "free-speech", somebody has to say "enough" to the abusive posters. somebody has to draw lines that protect all of us from a few renegade "nasties", whether we think we need it or not. somebody has to very publicly "put their foot down" when things get touchy.

no prizes for guessing who that somebody is .

what i am trying to say i guess is thankyou for providing this service. i know some things are still being "ironed out". i appreciate that ju admin are doing their best.

mig.
Reply #39 Top
I agree with Mignuna and although there have been a couple times that I have argued with you Brad, which I scarcely remember about what, thanks for providing this free service. I am not licking boots here know that, but it is nice to have a place like JU around.
Reply #40 Top
"
On th eother hand, an article that goes "Well, as you know, Brad is a prick who should be flogged fwith his own spleen" would be less welcome.
"

You know Brad, this may not even be about what I said, but I just want you to know that I was saying you could be insensitive at times. I wasn't trying to insult you or say anything that's new. I think perhaps being called a "prick" is more offensive to you than it is to me, and I apologize for my faux pax.

~Buddha