Clarion SF writers' workship moves to UC San Diego

That's going to make it really odd to talk about Clarion West being in Seattle.

true enough. this year they're affiliated with Elanor Roosevelt College, but next year I believe they'll be working with Sixth College (UCSD has six undergraduate colleges with different philosophies and GEs). i'm hoping i can wiggle my way into serving as liason for Sixth.

also, they're providing commemorative T-shirts to the first 500 people to donate $100 or more - see www.theclarionfoundation.org for that.

I was rather surprised to find this particular topic on this particular board. Although, considering the depth of DA and the quality of the SF experience it provides, I suppose I shouldn't be.

Are any of you Clarion Grads? Of either Clarion? Simply interested in going? Just wondering.

Joe Murphy
Clarion East 2000
Clarion West 1995

i'm not a grad, not from Clarion anyway (UCSD class of 2004 magna cum laude). i'm just an aspiring writer and young academic happily taking a break between degrees. but i'm extremely interested in going. unfortunately i don't have any short SF stories; my only sorties into the genre have been lengthier works. the application asks for two short stories, and i wonder if it'd really matter if one of the samples i used wasn't SF/fantasy (i have a nice short story that's fantasy-esque). i'll probably just write another short piece of irrealism for my application; but i need to decide if i should even apply.

I "think" you could submit the fantasy-esque piece and my feeling is that it would be well received on its own qualities. However, I found it advantageous to submit material in the genre. I found the experience well worth it. A lesson both in what constitutes speculative fiction, and the nuts and bolts of writing as a professional. I also have to say that I'm tremendously skeptical about writers who haven't demonstrated the ability to produce short fiction before going on to longer works. That may, or may not have anything to do with you, however.

So who do you read?

I like Thomas Ligotti, Jeff Vandermeer, and Sean Stewart.

And what might you mean by "irrealism?"

Irrealism is a catch-all term UCSD's lit dept. (at least) uses to describe fantasy, sci-fi, and similar pieces of writing.

right now i'm re-reading the Dune Chronicles. i realized i was having trouble remembering the books over the movies. i also like Ursula Le Guin and Octavia E. Butler a lot, but i read quite a bit. Kathy Acker and Julio Cortazar are two of my other favorites, and i recently finished Blindness by Jose Saramago.



and i never said i haven't written short pieces. one of my current projects is an anthology of short character studies. i just haven't written much sci-fi. people write for different reasons. i always had an attraction to writing, but i never invested myself in it until i'd almost finished my major (sociology, emphasis on social psychology). i was strongly drawn to theory, but i found that it was so abstract i didn't know what i meant on a concrete level. writing is one way i explore that.

Okay then,

Sounds like (to me at least) that you would have an excellent chance. I hope, that if you're so inclined and motivated, that you apply as I think you'll appreciate the experience.

Good luck if you do!

joem

I think that there are enough examples of writers who only work in one format or the other to suggest that, beyond the basic skill sets of language use and characterization, success in one bears little relation to success in the other.

In addition, the sub-novel marketplace is practically nonexistent these days; nudging people whose natural length is the novel into that market seems to me to be a grave disservice to both them and to the writers who prefer shorter formats.

Well, I'll stick with my opinion. There's a bit more to the novel than there is to the short story. Success in either involves more than simple basic skills. A successful novel involves a high quality of prose, pacing, characterization, story arc, and a good deal of originality.

The most effective way to develop those things is through short stories. They allow for more immediate feedback for one thing, and allow for greater experimentation in all qualities. It's a tremendous waste of time, for instance, to spend a week critiquing someone's bad, poor, or even mediocre novel. And in my twelve years of writing I've been asked to do that many, many times. Too many new writers bang away at the novel when they can't write a basic scene, can't get a handle on good dialog, and can't imagine a story more imaginative than something they saw on TV the other night.

A born novelist, then might excel at that length, but only after mastering more than the basics. A born novelist then can also write a decent short story as so many of the same skills apply.

My two cents anyway.

the one sortiee i mentioned into lengthier work was in fact a novelette. in less than three months i wrote a 50-page short novel. it certainly needs polish, but i found the length quite enjoyable to work with, and i plan on turning the story into a series.



this can be true; at the same time, one genre i've found very interesting is the short-short. very short stories present a challenge to word economy that, i found anyway, forced me to re-evaluate many so-called standard parts of writing. i think it comes down to a question of what you're hoping to achieve as a writer. nonetheless, i feel it's productive for any artist to attempt several genres, even if we feel we're producing crap.

Short shorts are indeed a very marketable and very effective way to develop their craft. I'll certainly agree that writing in several genres is certainly the way to go. I write about what interests me so I'm all over the irrealism (love that word) spectrum. I very seldom write mainstream as I just don't find the every day world all that intriguing.

Novelettes are generally a difficult, though not impossible sell. However, I've often found that the story will dictate its own length. The beginning after all, determines the end and where and how that will come about.

Ray's comment concerning the sub novel market being non existent isn't quite true. Check out Ralan.com if you're in need of markets. At Clarion though we were told that only about seven percent of writers in the speculative fields can make a living at it. So the odds aren't that good regardless of the length.

I don't write to make a living, however. I've pretty much proven that I don't have the talent to do that although I have reached the pro levels. I write because I have to, because that's how I make sense of things. As you mentioned, I believe, writing is exploration, certainly a most worthy motivator.

i'm certainly not trying to make money by writing; i plan to teach to make a living. i too write because i have to.

i figured novelettes are a hard sell. i'm hoping 5-7 serial novelettes bound in a single volume (a la The Chronicles of Narnia) might do a bit better, but it's not a major concern.

besides, once i'm a teacher, i can always assign my own work and force people to read it