The Republican Party is broken

Bush and his ilk have no guiding principles

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010148&mod=RSS_Opinion_Journal&ojrss=frontpage
from JoeUser Forums

Peggy Noonan, one of my heroes, has an outstanding column in today's Wallstreet Journal about George W. Bush and how he has torn the Republican party asunder.

It has always amazed me to see Bush haters trying to paint Bush as a "typical" Republican or "typical" conservative. He is neither.

His out of control spending, his preference for loyalty over competency, his incompotent handling of Iraq, his left-of center views on federal education, immigration, and even welfare make him not a Republican or a Democrat but some sort of bizarro President.

It's as if "Bob down the street" somehow got elected President. Bob, who knows little on politics, has little interest in it, gathers about him his Sunday afternoon Football buddies to hang with him and set out policy based on their "gut".

Except I suspect Bob wouldn't be stupid enough to call the base of his support unpatriotic as Bush did yesterday.  Only in Bush's world would those who are against lawbreaking considered unpatriotic.

Check out Peggy's column below. It is well worth the read.

 

republican
32,434 views 73 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
When he ran, I did not like his education plank.  But I thought perhaps that the time down south had bred the New England liberalism out of him.  It has become apparent that it did not.  He is a chip off the old block, and that unfortunately is not a compliment.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Politics as a whole, is broken, IMO.
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

If this immigration bill passes I will vote DEMOCRAT next year just to give the GOP the swift kick in the rear it obviously needs.

Apparently, losing control of the House wasn't enough.

I'd vote for a third party or independent.

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
It has always amazed me to see Bush haters trying to paint Bush as a "typical" Republican or "typical" conservative. He is neither.



ummm..that's not true. as someone who gets accused of hating bush here almost daily... i've repeatedly said that i don't "hate" bush at all. what has happened has been quite sad actually. and i'm not alone there. yes, there are some real "haters" out there, that is true. but everyone who opposes their policies shouldn't be smeared as a "hater." that is the rhetoric of bush and the neocons.

and i've repeatedly talked about them not being "real conservatives" at length.

I'd vote for a third party or independent.


i think the bloomberg / hagel ticket might be interesting. and unlike many independent runs these days, that one wouldn't be handicapped on the cash front.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I had to laugh at the bizarro president comment - funny stuff. I think our country is ripe for a third party. I think we need more choices because politics as usual isn't cutting it.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's not just the Republicans, both major parties are pretty much fractured. Added to that fracture is the fact that neither party has either a heir apparent or cause celeb around which to rally.

The democrats had the war in Iraq, but their lack of any real move towards "bringing the troops home" with the leadership of Congress has stripped them of that issue. The republicans had Conservatism and National Defense on their side, but well, we have seen conservatism take a hit for the team, and National Defense has been exposed in the VA, Military Healthcare System and now Illegal Aliens.

The current lineup of Democrat candidates are tripping over themselves trying to play old, warn out "us vs them" gambits like class warfare and their delusion that they are still running against Prs. Bush. The current Republican candidates are trying to convince us that they are the "most" conservative, but none have really taken the torch and ran with it.

So, will their be a darkhorse in one of the parties? One who doesn't have to qualify their positions and platform? Or will the major parties simply ask us all to vote against the other party's candidate... in other words, vote for the letter after the name instead of the person behind it?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Draginol,
I have to agree with you here. I am not a die-hard conservative, but I have always at least respected the Republicans for sticking to two principals that I can relate to: fiscal conservativism, and high moral standards. The current administration has completely lost the high ground on both of these issues. I often wonder whose bright idea it was to take the old conservative concept of being fiscally sound, and saying..hey why don't we just do the tax cuts we used to, and not worry about the corresponding spending cuts....Seems like Bushie has lost his way...
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Draginol,

why don't you run
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

Your girl Noonan was pretty high on George back in '04.  Hell, most of you were.  Now, you're throwing him under the bus because he's "not a conservative."  Don't make me laugh, you ain't getting out of this one that easily.

George Bush is a failure because he took all the things the righties love -- money for the rich, blowing up third world countries, smacking around gays, and telling everyone they'd get a gun in ever pot -- and he screwed it up.  But not because he's a bad conservative -- nah -- he's the most Republican president you guys have ever elected.  Bush is the sum of all that conservatives believe, and living proof of what an unwavering conservative means for any group larger than your local Baptist church.

You guys can't weasel out on Bush now -- you elected him twice.  You broke the Republican party, not George Bush.  He was just your poster-boy.

Cheers.

Gore '08

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
You guys can't weasel out on Bush now -- you elected him twice. You broke the Republican party, not George Bush. He was just your poster-boy.


good point.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gore '08


Gore Vidal? Interesting choice, Myrrander, because you couldn't POSSIBLY mean AL Gore! (LOL!)

The problem each party has is that the majority in the party believe THEIR party isn't broken. Every political party in the US (Yes, including my own beloved LP) is broken, and until their supporters recognize that fact, they're likely to remain so.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
SilentPoetJune 1, 2007 14:52:35


Politics as a whole, is broken, IMO.


nice to see you Lucas. and it's not politics that are broken it's the pigs that are in POLITICS.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
it's the pigs that are in POLITICS.


and a lot of those pigs are there because we, the people haven't given a damn in a long time
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
and a lot of those pigs are there because we, the people haven't given a damn in a long time


I thought they are there because "the man" keeps good politicians down.

That's what you argued on MY thread, at least.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
thought they are there because "the man" keeps good politicians down.

That's what you argued on MY thread, at least.


you are really getting to be a petty lil bitter one gid...i said the "commission on presidential debates" keeps 3rd parties out of national politics. but they are a private entity, not the "man" as you suggest. but that's ok, because one of the problems is that people think that the commission is some neutral govt. agency. and i'm happy to correct you on that again.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
if it were an "honest" question..then you wouldn't have insulted me 3 times in the asking.

what is "farktarded" is you and your behavior.

don't like that i like to use an abbreviated form of a word? tough. if you would have asked in a decent manner, i might have told ya why, as there is a reason.



but your continued obsession with everything i write and do is still flattering  
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
you are really getting to be a petty lil bitter one gid...i said the "commission on presidential debates" keeps 3rd parties out of national politics. but they are a private entity, not the "man" as you suggest. but that's ok, because one of the problems is that people think that the commission is some neutral govt. agency. and i'm happy to correct you on that again.


Actually you used "commission on presidential debates" as an example. This is what you really said:

it has more to do with the 2 majors shutting out independents and 3rd party candidates. it is most obvious in the presidential debates.the debates are run by "the commission on presidential debates."


If I'm not mistaken you are blamning the 2 majors ("the man" as Gid put it) for keeping them shut out. So really Gid was right.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

Your girl Noonan was pretty high on George back in '04. Hell, most of you were. Now, you're throwing him under the bus because he's "not a conservative." Don't make me laugh, you ain't getting out of this one that easily.
George Bush is a failure because he took all the things the righties love -- money for the rich, blowing up third world countries, smacking around gays, and telling everyone they'd get a gun in ever pot -- and he screwed it up. But not because he's a bad conservative -- nah -- he's the most Republican president you guys have ever elected. Bush is the sum of all that conservatives believe, and living proof of what an unwavering conservative means for any group larger than your local Baptist church.
You guys can't weasel out on Bush now -- you elected him twice. You broke the Republican party, not George Bush. He was just your poster-boy.

You have no excuse for such a stupid comment, Myrander. My dislike of Bush in 2004 was pretty clear even then. Many conservatves were irritated with him in 2004 and by 2005 they were openly hostile which ultimately culminated in the 2006 defeat of Republicans in congress.

"Money for the rich".  The government stealing LESS of my earned income is hardly the government giving me money. I can understand how a public servant such as yourself might be easilyl confused by this since your income comes from the government. But the rest of us aren't relying on the "guvment" to take care of us.  The federal government confiscated from me more money that I earned this past year than you probably have made in your lifetime and for what?

You clearly have no idea how obnoxious it is to hear some guy who scarcely pays taxes acting like a mild tax cut (which I used to create more jobs) is the government "giving" me money - as if my money is property of the government in the first place.

"blowing up third-world countries". Gee, who was it that sent troops to Bosnia, Haiti, bombed Iraq repeatedly, had the mess in Somalia? That's right, it was Clinton.

During Bush's term we've sent troops to Afghanistan in response to 9/11 and attacked Iraq (like Clinton).

If you think Bush is the "most Repubilcan president" then you really don't know enough of the topic to be discussing this.  Ronald Reagan was the most Republican President in recent times (and he was by no means perfect but other than on taxes, Bush has no ideology that I can tell).

Conservatives (who used to be in control the the Republican party) want:

  • Small government
  • Low taxes
  • Secure Borders
  • More control locally, less federally

Bush has blown all of these.  From his massive spending increases in congress (which helped cost the Republicans in 2006) to this ridiculous immigration bill to bloated federal programs like Medicare prescription programs, the ONLY good thing Bush has done is lower taxes slightly (and he didn't fix corporate taxes).

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bush has blown all of these. From his massive spending increases in congress...


oh, now congress isn't responsible for it's own appropriations and spending as well? it's all george's fault, since the republican's don't have to defend him in another election. guess the admin. taught the party well in throwin people under the bus once they are no longer politically useful.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
oh, now congress isn't responsible for it's own appropriations and spending as well? it's all george's fault, since the republican's don't have to defend him in another election. guess the admin. taught the party well in throwin people under the bus once they are no longer politically useful.


Uh, hello? Congress was control by the Reps before and they were in it with Bush so no he is not giving Congress a free ride. Stop nit-picking and put a real argument out for once.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
It has always amazed me to see Bush haters trying to paint Bush as a "typical" Republican or "typical" conservative. He is neither.


bush has never claimed to be conservative but a moderate conservative. which means he is a middle of the road kind of guy.

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
bush has never claimed to be conservative but a moderate conservative.


no, he made up his own newspeak brand of conservatism,,something that couldn't be defined or analyzed by anyone...compassionate conservatism.

plus, i don't think i've ever heard the term "moderate conservative" used by anyone. i've heard conservative and others call themselves "moderates" but not both.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
plus, i don't think i've ever heard the term "moderate conservative" used by anyone. i've heard conservative and others call themselves "moderates" but not both.


doesn't disprove my point in that he doesn't claim t be a conservative