Can we make the action a bit more.. interesting?

Okay, I haven't played for long, but there is one thing that really disapoints me, and that is the lack of movement in combat.
No ship, when facing a nother in combat, would just sit there and fire away, they would move around and try to shoot eachother, while trying to not get shot themselves.
All I want to see is ships circling around eachother (particuarly smaller ships vs. Capital ships) just to give a bit more feel to it.
Anybody else feel the same way?
20,331 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top
Yes, except for the capitals. Capitals should be big and cumbersome, especially when they have big forward-looking guns. Than it just has to remain stationary to keep the aim...
Reply #2 Top
Which is a capital ship more likely to do though, keep its main guns locked on target even though it will take more damage due to the, lets say, 2 or 3 capital ships firing at it. Or would it sacrifice its main firepower for turreted weapons and being able to move, thus breaking off from the enemies main weapon lock and getting the advantage on their presumably weaker armour?

The second option is likely to keep them alive longer, therefore, even though their heavier firepower can't hit the enemy, their lighter firepower is likely to do more damage over the length of time that they stay alive than their main firepower would due to reload times and sheer survival time.

Conversely, when you have multiple capital ships attacking a single one, they wouldn't just line up in front of their target and fire everything they've got at it, they would work together and encircle their target, thus meaning the ship wouldn't be able to break off from the attack so easily, meaning their firepower could be directed more successfully for a longer time period.
Reply #3 Top
I thought that the bombers and fighters were supposed to do all of the moving and strafing.
Being an ex-Navy man, the ships work pretty much exactly as I would have thought that they would. Smaller ships move around and avoid shots but the larger ships usually can't do this. Especially if missiles and lasers are figured into the mix. They are too fast to avoid at any rate unless you are one of the fighters or bombers.
I don't like how the support ships go in to battle like the other ships do but I have seen that addressed in other sections of the forums. I think that the AI for the frigates could include the encircling technique Valdore describes. Then again, if the concept of 3D space was used for the battles then circling an opponent would become much harder.
Reply #4 Top
But if you think about it in scale the frigates are so much smaller and faster than the capital ships. so i would of thought it would be in their best interests to at least strafe around, say the Kol, to avoid the main cannons whilst still firing away. they will eventually die due to the rotating turrets but it wouldnt be so much overkill.
or just move to a different position so that their out of the range of the heavy hitting wepons. probably requive advanced AI for all ships so i don't personally see it happening
*sigh*   
Reply #5 Top
Agreed, combat could use a few more dimensions than there are now.

Just rocking 5 cap ships into a system is enough to win most battles - and if you have some support ships - all the better.

Perhaps a fog of war in system including Line of sight and some stealth systems.

Direction of weaponry. Could the kol REALLY hit a little frig with it's front lasers?
Arcs of fire. narrow, wide, long, short, whatever - just so long as it adds an extra element to the positioning of your ships and structures.
Weak points. weak rear armour, vunerable to jamming, slow to recharge for jumps.

Y'all feel free to add suggestions im sure theres a million things i haven't thought of.
Reply #6 Top
Okay, perhaps you misunderstood.
I have no want to change any mechanics (such as damage) I just want a purely entertainment addition.
I know capital ships shouldn't be moving, and should just be there giving broadsides and such, but I mean cruisers and frigates should be moving around, trying to avoid fire from others.
If any of you have played Homeworld 2, you'll know what i'm talking about: the big ships just floated there shoot at everything they saw, while everything smaller would move around avoiding fire.
I want the damage on things to remain the same, but this would actually give a reason for how long it takes a battleship early on to destroy frigates: that they are circling around avoiding fire.
So just to clarify: only appearence wise, no change in damage, just that frigates and cruisers will try and cirle/ move around enemy ships, instead of just sitting there doing nothing, quite honestly, I find it somewhat boring just seeing them sit there.

EDIT: thinking about it, I'll give you a sorta explanation about how it should work with frigates vs. a capital ship:
The the capital ship and frigates start moving at eachother, this is where front based weaponry (such as the radiation bomb or gauss cannon) can fire, but one they are within a certain range,the capital ship stops moving, while the frigates start flying around it, at hich point only the autocannons/ normal lasers can shoot them.

I think this would look far more inteesting, and not be so boring.
Reply #7 Top
I said exactly the same thing in Gameplay Feedback Imacuttlefish, nice to know some others want more realism and entertainment in the battles!
Reply #8 Top
I can't say it's so much realism for me, I just want there to be more life, and to be quite honest I believe it's easily possible for them to do it, they can make strike craft circle and dive on ships, why can't they just do it for other ships?
Now, i've never been in a massive fleet battle (the medium bots aren't that clever) but I know that in the smaller engagemnts, it's not ever been as interesting as i'd like.
Reply #9 Top


If any of you have played Homeworld 2, you'll know what i'm talking about: the big ships just floated there shoot at everything they saw, while everything smaller would move around avoiding fire.



I have played Homeworld 2, and indeed, anything that wasn't strikecraft did infact just sit there firing at whatever they were firing at, just as it is here. I never saw a single frigate, destroyer, battlecruiser or mothership circling their target or trying to avoid enemy fire while shooting.
Reply #10 Top
It's not about dog fighting. It's about flanking and maneuvering. Which at the moment, is completely included in game and micro managing a battle like this can be devastatingly effective against the AI (ie a non-microing Human during multiplayer). This has been discussed and, at least I think, needs to be specifically thought-out how to best keep the effectiveness of flanking and encircling without adding intense clickfests.
Reply #11 Top

It's not about dog fighting. It's about flanking and maneuvering. Which at the moment, is completely included in game and micro managing a battle like this can be devastatingly effective against the AI (ie a non-microing Human during multiplayer). This has been discussed and, at least I think, needs to be specifically thought-out how to best keep the effectiveness of flanking and encircling without adding intense clickfests.


Here is the problem with your view, what kind of concept are the developers looking at for the way to resolve combat in the game?

From a strict gameplay perspective, the end result of any combat movement system will be the same. One way or another you're going to win or lose.

From the aesthetic look, you've got a point. It would look a lot better to see some maneuvering around the board. However, is that worth the effort (and I have no clue what kind of effort it would take, might be big or small) to implement a maneuvering system for the frigates and cruisers? What kind of rebalancing would that take as well?

Finally, what about a physics perspective? Given the scale of the game I doubt there is a concentrated idea on what kind of physics the game is using but that would make a difference in this argument. For example, trying to fight in a realistic newtonian environment results in two possible style of combat manuevers. One being that the high mass ships, relatively to the other combatants, are in static or near static position in order to avoid the numerous problems of drift. The other being where you have two ships attempting to line up an actual shot that might hit while constantly screaming past each other. In that second option combat would be two minutes of strafing each other until a single hit actually scores.
Reply #12 Top
From the aesthetic look, you've got a point. It would look a lot better to see some maneuvering around the board. However, is that worth the effort (and I have no clue what kind of effort it would take, might be big or small) to implement a maneuvering system for the frigates and cruisers? What kind of rebalancing would that take as well?


I think you may have missed my point. The ships can now CURRENTLY as of (at least) Beta 2 can flank and maneuver around another fleet and gain advantage of the battle. Perhaps I should explain my tactics. If I had a fleet of 20 cobalts about to battle an equally matched fleet of 20 cobalts, I would wait for the battle to start and then make my move. At first the two fleets will stop in front of each other and exchange fire. Next, I would move 5 to 10 cobalts to the side or rear of the enemy fleet. In almost every situation, the enemies next move guarantees my victory. If they reposition to attack the moving ships, my stationary fleet will chase and attack. If not, my small flanking fleet will attack without repercussions.

I CAN DO THIS NOW! The AI can't. So I kick it's ass,even when I am sorely out numbered, because I am Napoleonic when it comes to managing my battles. ERGO, if I play in multi against one who does not do as I, (s)he too will fall before me.

I hope I have cleared this up and it is more understandable.
Reply #13 Top
I wish there was a dev out there that could give us some input on their ideas on the subject...