EVOLUTION ICES OPPONENTS

chillin with the alternative

how do fundamentalists and others who refuse to accept the possibility of evolution because it contradicts a literal interpretation of divinely revelated or inspired literature explain away the reality of previous ice ages?

i dont recall anyone in any version of the torah or old testament mentioning polar ice incursions....yet they certainly occured.
17,298 views 41 replies
Reply #1 Top
kingbee,
thats the great thing about believing in an all powerful being....any discrepencies are because it was gods will....me, I like to see and feel things myself
Reply #2 Top
yeah thats why im a jehovahs agnostic....i saw something but im not sure what it was
Reply #3 Top

thats the great thing about believing in an all powerful being....any discrepencies are because it was gods will


ROFL...that was good!

Reply #4 Top
yup it sure was

and its high on the list of attributes rarely ascribed to supreme beings....like author of all distrurbingly unresolved ambiguities
Reply #5 Top
man I dont care what ahem.... christian or any other religion says until you can point out dinosaurs in the bible that book is a waste of time for me.... Enter Bill Hicks track called: "Dinosaurs in the bible"

BTW... if you guys are curious as to what Im talking about get on Kazaa lite or what ever musci sharering thing you have an dl it... its absolutely fucking funny... I heard it first when I was in high school and 4 years since I heard it last I dl it like a month ago and havent stop laughing to it since.

Thomas
Reply #6 Top
Ahhh...I don't even worry about that crap anymore...I like to think a divine being just wanted to play around for awhile then eventually we popped up after he/she was done....lol
Reply #7 Top
cann1bal

i know you didnt mean to advocate any activity that might involve intentional copyright infringement by using a p2p file transfer method to locate and download an unauthorized digital recording of bill hick's' "dinosaurs in the bible."

*lookin innocent as only a four-time convicted felon is truly capable*
Reply #8 Top
zoologist03...

the divine afterthought? sho nuff seems like that at times.
Reply #9 Top



Man, you guys are so cold about how we all got here! The ice age occured all those thousands of years ago when the Super Upper Vegetarianuses (SUV's) ignored the warnings of the Meat-Ingesting Neurologicaly-Increased Vanguardasaurus (MINI VANS) and continued over-eating all the time. This in turn caused major gas problems which in turn caused excessive atmospheric heating that eventualy led to the polar ice melt-down that produced the slush that we know now as the Ice Age. Michel Moore, the award winning film maker goes into great detail about the odor of those times in his recent -not- to- be- released -award -winning -film, "Flatuate 911". The main thrust of his film is that the middle part of the continent now known as North America stinks, except for him and people who think he's talented. What's the matter with you guys? Aint you got no culture?
As far as God not mentioning the Ice Age in the Bible..., well it probaly was none of our business. The Flood was and is our business, and that was mentioned quite a bit.Mind your own business, folks, for God's sake.
Reply #10 Top
it all seems so clear to me now.

cracked me up bigtime, forefather1. im gonna have to do some research on the vanguardasaurus
Reply #11 Top
I don't understand what is so hard to understand about "Creation through Evolution"... Is it not possible that God used the process of Evolution in order to carry out his Creation plans?  God created the world in 7 days, but that was before the clock was invented, so who's to say that a day was 24 hours back then? 
Reply #12 Top
For evolution to have occurred, all the parts of the puzzle must fit. And the evolutionary theory is missing over 90 percent of the pieces. Where are the missing links? What came first, the chicken or the egg? Evolution is shiek to believe these days. But in truth, it is the most fraudulent bunch of bullshit ever told to the idiot masses by their high and mighty educators and leaders. It is a belief with no proof whatsoever to support it.
Reply #13 Top
Is it not possible that God used the process of Evolution in order to carry out his Creation plans?

that seems the most likely scenario involving a creator being with creativity and patience. insightful observation.
Reply #14 Top
marvin

i saw your claim that the ark was embedded in ice on the top of a mountain in turkey. thats sorta what inspired this post because i couldnt recollect any reference in the old testament to either glaciers or any ice at all for that matter much less the ark bein iced in someplace.. did i miss it or them somehow or ?
Reply #15 Top

How about this fairly straight forward issue:

In the bible, it was Noah and his sons on the arc. That means they all shared the same Y chromosome. Given what we know, the tale of Noah's arc had to have happened in the past 7,500 years. Not nearly enough time for mutation to have created significantly diffrent Y chromosomes in us (i.e. ALL men on this planet should have a derivative of that Y chromosone).  But it didn't happen.  The aboriginals in Australia have very different Y chromosomes than Africans or Europeans.

Therefore, Noah's Arc, as told in the bible, could not have happened.

Reply #16 Top
Brad; modern Y chromosone studies have demonstrated that all men share a common male ancestry. 7,500 years is definately more than enough time for the level of genetic differences to have developed if one considers that there were mutations already underway in the family line prior to that point.

Who's to say what the exact racial/genetic background of this family was prior to the biblical account? Could this be why this particular family was chosen? It was hardly rare in those days.

Sorry but that seemingly rational arguement doesn't hold up. Under the right circumstances, with the right rate of breeding after that point, 7,500 years is enough time.

If the biblical account were untrue, and evolution alone accounts for human beings, why aren't there several families represented around the world? We know that all human males decend from a single patriarchical family. Evolutionists claim this is because we all evolved from the same species, but if this were true there would still be other geneticly different male families represented because evlolution supposedly occurs in a species, not just one family in a species. This just isn't the case. Y chromosone studies lead back to a single male family origin.

This lends credence to the biblical account of Noah's flood.

As to the ice ages, I just don't see the conflict. The bible doesn't address this topic one way or the other. The bible addresses the middle eastern area of the world. This area was never covered in ice during these periods, so why would it speak of it? Some people get the mistaken idea that the entire world was covered in ice during these periods, but that simply isn't the case as any geologist can tell you.

I know it's considered fun and chic to poke fun at Christians these days, and I'm sure you enjoy it greatly, but I find these tired, feeble old arguements to be just that; tired and feeble.
Reply #17 Top
well...yall have lost me in a couple regards here. starting with the timeline, 7500 bce is on the oldest possible end of the noah scale isnt it? wouldnt approximately 5500 be more likely?

next, i was under the impression the results of genetic or chromosone research supported the out of africa model and that native inhabitants of australia appear to have fewer y chromosone variations from the african ancestor than did residents of other geographic areas

As to the ice ages, I just don't see the conflict. The bible doesn't address this topic one way or the other. The bible addresses the middle eastern area of the world. This area was never covered in ice during these periods, so why would it speak of it? Some people get the mistaken idea that the entire world was covered in ice during these periods, but that simply isn't the case as any geologist can tell you.

there seems to be credible evidence that the last ice age (6?00 bce) had significant effects in the middle east since the glaciers locked up so much water. those who lived in the area around what is now the black sea would likely have been drawn close to what was then a huge lake. when the temperature and rainfall normalized again, the mediterranean broke thru the natural land barrier. what followed must have been an incredible flood...possibly noahs flood? since the timelines correspond, it seems unusual there isnt mention of the effects of ice age/glaciers

masonm, admittedly this started as a sort of parody. yall hadda take it serious (joking) in any event, you and draginol offered reasonable, cogent points of view and ive tried to respond in kind.

Reply #18 Top
KINGBEE...................IT APPEARS YOU'VE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK ON THIS SUBJECT. MY FINDINGS ARE SIMILAR.

THE CURRENT SCENARIO OF GLOBAL WARMING IS REALLY IRRATIONAL. TRUE SCIENCE SUPPORTS THE IDEA THAT GLOBAL WARMING MAY EVEN HELP THE CLIMATES OF THE WORLD. MORE FOOD WILL BE PRODUCED, ICY AREAS WOULD BECOME PRODUCTIVE. THIS RECENT MOVIE, "THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW", IS TOTAL FANTASY AND COULD NEVER HAPPEN. THIS GLOBAL WARMING CRAP IS BASED ON UNSOUND SPECULATION AND IS COMPLETLY WITHOUT MERRIT. ITS A COMPLETE FANTASY.
Reply #19 Top
Here's an interesting tidbit to think on. The British mathematician Hoyle (known widely for his books on gaming) came up with these mega numbers after studying the latest data on single cell structure. The complexities of inter-action that take place every second in a cell are so vast and intricate that man has not even conceived of a computer that might accomplish that one second of...(should I call it accident?). He (who by the way is an atheist) went on to formulate what it would take to have the biological blendings (my terminology ) occur and his concusions were thus; (I'm sure I'll not be exact, but hopefully make my point) 10 to the 40,000th power years. To put this in a kind of perspctive, the electron, the most numerous thing known to man (I wanted to say 'in creation') comes in somewhere around 10 to the 40th power in number. What that translates to is trillions times trillions or zillions times zillions, or what ever number you want to come up with, are the odds that chance put together a single cell. Another way of putting it is 'no way, Hosea'. To be specific, let me say that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...
Reply #20 Top
'no way, Hosea'

better dont let jose hear you sayin dat.

keeping that incredible complexity in mind, would a creator who launched such an incredibly intricate process with the simplest possible lifeform and then let things develop from there be more glorious than one who churned out everything in a static final version release?
Reply #21 Top
masonm, admittedly this started as a sort of parody.


Actually I thought it was a satirical/humorous article and read it in that vein. These types of topics always generate a fair amount of debate (often heated) and I just wanted to do my part to fan the flames.
Reply #22 Top
Marvin Are you still living under a rock? Do you mean to tell me that it is more believable that we were created out of dirt and not evolved from apes?? The bible is a collection of stories and nothing else. I find it laughable that .01% of "prayers" that are answered is considered a high success rate while the 99.99% that is not answered is "god's will"

Let me leave you with two things
1) religion is the opium for masses
2) Religion is regard by the common as true, by the wise as false and by rulers as useful.


Reply #23 Top

7,500 years is definately more than enough time for the level of genetic differences to have developed if one considers that there were mutations already underway in the family line prior to that point.

I'm sorry that's an absurd statement.  The rate of mitochondria DNA mutation is predictable. 7,500 years is not even remotely long enough to account for the differences.

I find it quite likely that all living humans are descended from a single genetic set as that is simply a mathametical certainty. Just not in the way you may be thinking. If you take a population of say 1,000 people. Within 100 generations, every single person is going to have the same common ancestor. It does not, by any means, imply that we started out with only 2 people (except maybe in Great Britain where the goofed up teeth certainly make one reconsider <g>).

Reply #24 Top
Mr. Cooley - I see you're trolling again. Wonder why you haven't replied to my post in your "PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS" thread. . . could it be that you can only repeat the same claims over and over without all that bothersome thinking that would go into formulating a rebuttal?

Oh, here's that evidence you wanted:Link
Reply #25 Top
Umm... I saw someone wuote the mathematician Hoyle above and Hoyle's analysis is known to be deeply flawed in its assumptions. Hoyle is assuming we are trying to make a complete cell, we're not, we're trying to make one or two of the basic chemicals that must have made up early "life" i.e. basic amino acids, bases, water, methane, carbon dioxide, hydrogen sulphide. All of which are statistically likely to have been made in the early part of the Earth's life.

Also on Noah, Brad quite rightly cites mitochondrial DNA as proof that the Noah's ark story could not have happened. Through analysis of the DNA it has been proved that humans evolved from seven different tribal groupings at least 30,000 years ago. Noah's ark happened at most 7,500 years ago and mitochondrial DNA only comes from the mother, so if the Noah's ark story were true only one 'family' of mitochondria would be traceable not the seven we see today. The Noah story therefore cannot have happened. Also need I mention that animal populations (including humans) would have been decimated by congenital defects from excessive inbreeding? There also would not have been enough time for the wide range of variation we see today to have developed and why is there no indication of a great flood in any of the fossil records?