Game Speed Request - Important

from Sins Forums
Greetings,

I have watched and been intrigued by the beta gameplay videos posted by Multianna, but the last bit of theater gave me cause to worry. I hope a developer might respond with his/her thoughts on the issue.

In most of the videos gameplay occurs in a single star system with multiple planetary bodies. The game possesses the capacity to play in multi-star systems (multiple solar systems). In the last video from beta 4, I believe I beheld an increase in game speed. With the potential magnitude of empire management and fleet management of Sins Of A Solar Empire I am very worried that this accelerated pacing will be too much for many players to grapple with, myself included.

Also, an accelerated pace of play does not do a service to the concept of mighty capital starships lumbering slowly through the cosmos. I know that in any rts the capacity of a foe to employ clever tactics against you is balanced by your ability to employ clever counter-tactics - accelerated rates of gameflow thwart that. To use an overutilized term, the game could become more of a reactionary twitch-fest than a *strategy* game.

I am worried that peoples` impatience might compromise what is a proper pace of play for a game like SoaSE. I think this sort of contest must occur at a slow pace, lest the thing seem more like an exercise in the dispatchment of swarming bugs to points on a dirt hill or race cars to points in a track, rather than the calculated deployment and retrieval of fleets to distant star systems. Gamespeed must adequately support the game mythology/premise in order for the experience to be convincing and immersive.

I believe that a slow pace of play should therefore be the default game speed out of the box. I believe if this is not the case, many potential players are going to dismiss the game as yet one more reaction-based horder, albeit with sophisticated trappings that make one *think* it is more at a glance.

If I might be so bold as to address the developers directly: I think you need to make a clear decision about the game in this regard. I do not believe there is a 'balance to be had' here either. If you speed up the flow of the game you may move to satisfy those who want to play a contest within X period of time. If you keep game speed in line with the subject matter, keeping things believably cumbersome & realistic, you can appeal to people looking for something different from the StarCraft experience. I would hope you bear in mind a part of the genesis of your entire project - the evolution of 4x conquering games. A lot of people who were fans of those terrifically time-consuming contests are paying attention to what you are crafting here. If the conquering part of SoaSE is distilled into a hyper-active adrenal event, you`re going to lose a lot of them. And me.

Thanks for your time. I look forward to seeing more of SoaSE and to trying it out at some point in the near future.

P.S.: I would also like to hear some isolated game music, if that might be possible.
20,062 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Actually, when beta 3 first game out the overwhelming majority felt the game speed was too slow and games just took too long. You have a good point in why it should be slower, but the example of Multi's Beta 4 video was not an average length game. It was over very quickly; about an hour and 40 minutes, was it?? We played another 7 player game last night, and that lasted a bit over 3 hours.

That said, there are speed toggles built in, and I believe the recorded game we played on Normal (which is actually the old beta 3 Fast). I think if you actually played the game, you would be quite comfortable at the normal setting, it feels just right for us. Since it was put in (old fast/new normal) there hasn't been a single complaint about the pacing, other than the new fast is too fast

A lot of us appreciate that this kind of game isn't meant to be a blitz like some Stracraft or other RTS matches can be, but a lot of us also want to be able to finish games in one sitting in a fairly resonable time - the devs did a poll, and most people voted that a medium game should take about 60-90 minutes, and right now it's a bit over that, but it plays well.

You will find, I think, that on multi-star maps you'll have plenty to do and it will take a while to do it! I've had some games last up to 7-8 hours against AIs (and the AIs right now are pretty poor so they don't put up as big a challenge as they will at release).

The bottom line from me is that I don't think game speed is a particular worry for players on either side, at this stage. People who like very large maps with multiple stars will find they take suitably long, and people who like shorter games will stick to smaller single-star maps. That's one thing games like Starcraft can't do - the maps in them don't scale nearly as well as the maps in Sins!
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top


The bottom line from me is that I don't think game speed is a particular worry for players on either side, at this stage. People who like very large maps with multiple stars will find they take suitably long, and people who like shorter games will stick to smaller single-star maps. That's one thing games like Starcraft can't do - the maps in them don't scale nearly as well as the maps in Sins!
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oh my, yes. I only noticed the othe day that playing sins lately screwed up my time sense. we played a few games of starcraft and each one was over in about half an hour and I felt like "what, over already?". so don't worry, the speed settings are doing a fine job with not feeling too rushy and it has that certain epic feel to it that those quick battles in most rts don't have.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Most of the current players (I think) are using the fastest game speed. The change to incorporate this was requested by the beta testers after experience with the previous beta. There are two slower options, I'm sure one of them will suit you quite well. Here are the lot.

* Slow - Slow gameplay, plenty of time to check that every part of your empire is working as it should and micromanage your ships in battle. I think this would be the previous Normal, but it could be unchanged from the previous versions too.
* Normal - What was in beta3 the fastest option. This is the speed that the earlier gameplay videos were captured with. Might leave you forgetting to start that research the very second you're able to, but you'll still often sit and wait for the last couple of resources trickling in before being able to order something. Smaller matches can be done in about 90 minutes.
* Fast - New speed from beta4, and preferred by most of the experienced players. During important fights you are likely to forget spending your resources until a fair extra amount are accumulated, and some planets may be left undeveloped as you always have more important stuff to do. Smaller matches can be done in about an hour.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
* Fast - New speed from beta4, and preferred by most of the experienced players. During important fights you are likely to forget spending your resources until a fair extra amount are accumulated, and some planets may be left undeveloped as you always have more important stuff to do. Smaller matches can be done in about an hour.
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Actually, no, most of the pre-beta 4 players feel the old fast (or new normal) is better, and the new fast is too fast. According to the forum posts, anyway.

When the 'fast' speed was put in Beta 3, pretty much everyone agreed that it felt just right. I think what the devs did then is make it the new normal, and included a faster setting just in case people wanted it, and put the old normal as the new slow, in case people wanted to slow it down a bit more.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Okay, I'm probably mistaken then. I know there was plenty of complaining about it being too slow in beta3, and I haven't caught any complaints about the reverse since then so I came to the conclusion that people were playing the faster one now
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Teehee, yeah, there was a lot of complaining. The devs even put up a front page poll on it to get people's takes on it. It was all valid, though. The pace of the game and how fast matches get resolved is one of the core issues, especially for a game that offers the kind of scope that Sins does.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Can it be possible to build in a variable meter in game?

There are times I want sped up, times I want slowed down.

I've noticed I can only choose when starting a game.

Or have I missed something. (Note, last beta I played was 1, I'm redownloading for the latest, new PC and all)
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
There won't be a variable speed meter, no.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
"Shot Through the HEART and your to Blame"

ARrrrrggg I was really hoping we'd see that for Single Player...

Oh well not too big a deal.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
DARLIN YOU GIVE LOVEEE A BAD NAME!!!

although i would like a gamespeed that slowly decreases as the game goes on...
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Rome Total War does this well: The speed is the lowest of the settings of each of the participants. If someone sets it to paused, the game keeps going at the slowest possible setting as if that player had chosen that speed instead, until everyone else chooses to pause. Then it remains paused until everyone has unpaused.

Would like to see this feature, but a future patch would be sufficient for it. Possibly even a voting system where it would choose what the cumulative majority wants, or an average. Example of cumulative majority:
* 3 pauses and 2 fast means majority for pause
* 1 pause, 1 slow, 1 normal and 2 fast means majority for normal or faster => normal.
* 2 slow and 3 fast means majority for fast.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
No variable meter? Boo. Harsh for providing 'choice'.   

Voting can work, happens in EU too. You can only slow it for a set few minutes or only the host decides.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
I agree with bovi position. One of the things I like about this title is the slower speed of things. Call me crazy but space is vast and I dont like to be rushed when palnning galactic conquest; especially when the visuals are so damn good I often like to "stop and smell the coffee".
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
I think game speed is finally perfect, I play games on Fast and love it!

I also play on Normal when I am just learning ( as when I tried the Vasari out the first time)
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with bovi position. One of the things I like about this title is the slower speed of things. Call me crazy but space is vast and I dont like to be rushed when palnning galactic conquest; especially when the visuals are so damn good I often like to "stop and smell the coffee".
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I so agree but atm as multiplayer saved games doesn't work and its hard to find the same ppl again so you can continue your saved game.

Most games are played on normal speed and lasts about 2-3hours more or less on a medium random map, depending on how it turns out ofcourse.

One thing that can be annoying is when you expect the speed to be normal and the host has put it on fast, it screws things up alot, as you get to learn the different timing on jumps damage taken per second and so on. I know ICO aint perfect atm but i hope to see a warning of some kind so we can choose not to join if the settings are not to ones liking.

Fast speed is good for those who like an hour or so game.
Slow is abit too slow for my taste. Well it could be fun to try in a very huge game and with some ppl you knew you can get together with again As you said space is huge, and slow might actually show some more "realism"