Let's talk Unit Balance !

from Sins Forums
Hi everyone. I know there's a lot of discussion regarding unit balance but I wanted to post my two cents. Also please only respond if you have 15+ hours of game time.

Unit Balance:

1) Siege Frigates: I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding siege frigates but I think it is undeniable that they need to be rebalanced. They are so ridiculously powerful at this point in time. Yes, I understand that they are expensive, but the computer knows and the players know, that the return investment is insane. With just one hanger, and a handful of defenders you cannot destroy a fleet of siege frigates (no escort required) before they wipe down your planet. This wouldn't be such a big deal if my second point wasn't a cause for concern.

2) Phasing happens way too fast. Enemy ships can jump right through any defenders you have positioned before you can fire a shot, even when you position your fleet right at the jump points. In early game you cannot stop a scout ship from flying through your defense, dropping a probe, and peacing out. Not even a bomber squad, and a hanger costing 700 resource providing a mere two squads can intercept and destroy a scout ship before they probe you and fly off into the sunset. When this is done with Siege Frigates the game becomes exponentially annoying. The siege frigates can phase right past your forward defense planets and bombard your home world. You are then forced to phase your fleet after them. This begins the worst part of the game: PHASE TAG. You phase in they phase out. Oh look now they are phasing the siege frigates back, or worse splitting them up to divide and conquer. You just cannot stop anyone from phasing away.

3) Phase inhibitors are tech 4. TECH FOUR! Let me say this again... TECH 4. That means you have to play phase tag for a year and a day for the longest time. Once they are built they aren't very effective. I had a fleet of one Battleship, 10 tech 1 laser frigates with level 2 lasers, engage 5 siege frigates as they phased into an inhibitor. Four of them got away.

Conclusion:

Skip to this if you don't want to read through the discussion!

Something has to be done about phase tag. There needs to be a mobile phase inhibitor, and the stationary planetary inhibitors need to be tech one. Siege frigates are insane.
27,814 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
3) Phase inhibitors are tech 4. TECH FOUR! Let me say this again... TECH 4.
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For races not specialized in phase manipulation :) They are tech 2 for the Vasari, and I'm pretty sure Tech 3 for Advent.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
My gripe with siege frigates isn't that they are so powerful but the fact that the ai exploits it ALWAYS. Every single time the ai attacks one of my planets there are at least 4 siege frigates that go straight for the planet and start bombarding it. I think an easy way to fix this would be to boost the power of planetary defences.

The way it is now I don't even bother building turrets and hangars because they are just a minor annoyance to attacking fleets. Even if you build overlapping turrets and a few hangars, unless you have a fleet defending the attacking fleet is going to take out the planet every time.

Phasing does happen way too fast. An easy fix to this I think would be to boost the effectiveness of the phase inhibiters. I would also like to see more bombers/fighters produced by hangars, carriers and capital ships. And maybe even boost there damage output. It would help with intercepting scouts and retreating ships and it would also make the battles look alot cooler!



The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
i know what you mean, but, last night i played a game and at this point have gotten to a stalemate of a huge fleet coming at my heavily defended choke point planet. of course i was a while into the game at that point; however, are you building up your captured planets and asteroids for better colonies and more logistics and tactical points? i enhance my planets and asteroids 1st, even before queuing research. if your colonies are fully developed or on their way before you move on to colonize the next one it will slow you down but, i think, make it easier to build more in the end when your more concerned with ships and defense.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

3) Phase inhibitors are tech 4. TECH FOUR! Let me say this again... TECH 4.


For races not specialized in phase manipulation They are tech 2 for the Vasari, and I'm pretty sure Tech 3 for Advent.
End of quote



Tech 2 is still too many techs away from where it needs to be. Universally phase time needs to be increased. A phase inhibitor should make that pesky scout die to a bomber squad. It's not like I paid 700 res and 150 metal for a hanger or anything.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
I wasn't arguing with you :) You've got valid points. I was just butting in with a correction :P
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
what i was trying to get at but the forum would not let me edit, my slow and steady pace keeps me from over-expanding and spreading myself too thin. when i leave a planet i have at least a hanger, and a couple turrents
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding siege frigates but I think it is undeniable that they need to be rebalanced. They are so ridiculously powerful at this point in time.
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I do deny it.
With just one hanger, and a handful of defenders you cannot destroy a fleet of siege frigates (no escort required) before they wipe down your planet. This wouldn't be such a big deal if my second point wasn't a cause for concern.
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Why do you only have one hangar? Thats a defense against a raid, not an assault.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Im sorry, are you complaining about four siege frigates?

I know everyones just about new to the game, but if the FOUR siege friagates were giving you such a problem then its because your still learning the game, not because the games imbalanced.
Increase your planets' Population and health; get the research that lowers the damage your planetes get from bombardments, (i forgot the name), its next to the research that increases the planet's population.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
I've not had a problem with the siege frigates myself. Saw around 10 attack my capital last night, they flew past the turrets but two regular frigates and two bomber squads managed to wipe them out, though not before my capital was down to double figure health points.

I do think the AI has too much dependency on the frigates though. I had a carrier Capital Ship in his capital system using bomber squads to harass his facilities (just waiting for my own siege frigate fleet to arrive) and what does the AI throw up as a defence? more siege frigates.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Siege are fine imo and easy to take out, but phasing is definitely too fast, its nearly impossible to catch scouts
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Yes in some games the AI masses about 20 Seige Frigates and unless theres a defending fleet there, no amount of turrets can stop them. Especially since they can just fly to a spot around the planet where there are the least amount of turrets. I also have a huge problem with 'fleet tag'. Not once has the enemy stopped to engage my force but just seems to either retreat back the way they came or head off in another random direction. It is semi-managable when it's just one AI but when multiple AI start doing it I end up with a good number of my planets under attack from different enemies. And If I send my fleet after them they just retreat to another random system again where I then again must follow.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
I think the point of scouts, is so that the enemy can't catch them...until maybe very late game. It the sole purpose of scouts...that why they're weak, puny guns, but fast phasing.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
One idea about the phasing...maybe every ship thats fired on a non-capital ship incrementally slows down the units movement and phase jump time? So if my 15 ships had shot your unit A within the last second then your unit will move half as fast as long that many of my ships continue firing. 30 ships would then quarter the speed, etc.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
1) Siege Frigates: I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding siege frigates but I think it is undeniable that they need to be rebalanced. They are so ridiculously powerful at this point in time. Yes, I understand that they are expensive, but the computer knows and the players know, that the return investment is insane. With just one hanger, and a handful of defenders you cannot destroy a fleet of siege frigates (no escort required) before they wipe down your planet. This wouldn't be such a big deal if my second point wasn't a cause for concern.
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dont rely on hangers, use turrets.
3) Phase inhibitors are tech 4. TECH FOUR! Let me say this again... TECH 4
End of quote

...
thats insanely low...
and besides, its with regards to one race, TEC I assume.
There needs to be a mobile phase inhibitor
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vasari. well, vasari have the only cruiser one (maybe excluding the advent)
stationary planetary inhibitors need to be tech one
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hell no they are far too powerful for that.
Siege frigates are insane.
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*taps foot irritatedly*

15 hours gametime (something I doubt many have yet) does not equate to experience.

what you're proposing would protect noobs from everything that could threaten their slowly expanding little 2 planet empire, but removes ALL skill associated with the game, its a terrible idea all the way around.
I'm trying to be polite, but right now stressing how wrong these propositions are takes priority. it would annihilate all chance of sneak attacks, decimate anything but turtle games.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
The best way I've found to deal with the AIs siege frigates is to manually control all my fighters and kill them one by one.

Usually when the AI jumps into a system, his siege frigates go right to the planet undefended while his fleet stays back and engages your units. If you manually select all your fighters and target the siege frigates one at a time they usually kill them in one or two passes.Once they are dead then you can mop up the rest of his ships without having your planet wiped.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
3) Phase inhibitors are tech 4. TECH FOUR! Let me say this again... TECH 4.
End of quote

Well, doesn't matter that much whether they're tech 2 or 4, the fact is that they are pretty bloody useless once they're built anyway. They've got to be buffed substantially to have any meaningful contribution.