Yeah, I think I'm gonna like this!

Smacked around by bloggers!

from JoeUser Forums
Well, nothing says welcome like a swift kick in the balls! Yesterday I attended a conference in Atlanta entitled "Nonprofit Summit". It's basically an annual event that attempts to gather the leaders of nonprofits to share resources, ideas, and solutions to some of our society's most pressing problems. I have dedicated by entire life to nonprofit work. Rather accidentally at first - but in the last 10 years and for the rest of my life - it's been quite intentional. Anyway, while at the conference, I heard a speaker on the topic of Public Journalism. He brought up a topic that I've heard about and studied a bit - blogs. And I finally decided to join the revolution. But on the side of the left. I've decided that rampant intolerance to anything non-conservative, non-Christian, non-right wing, simply can't go unnoticed and unattended to.

So, in my second day of posting, I commented on what I view as a tad overdone activity around the Reagan State Funeral. And boy... people came right out of the wood work to attempt to shut me down. Sadly for them, it didn't work. As I've stated, I've spent my entire professional life in the nonprofit arena. I have been witness to some of the most troubling issues and concerns of our society. What's more troubling than the issues themselves - is a lack of compassion in addressing this issues. So... get used to it those of you on the "right", I will not stop talking about the need for tolerace. Your intolerant, rascist, homophobic, classist, and arrogant remarks will not go un-checked.

But during the process, I hope that you'll maintain some civility - I will challenge your opinions and certainly your data. And I expect to be challenged as well. And I'll admit when I'm wrong - and will hope you will do the same. In the long run, who knows... maybe we'll take a moment to consider someone else's point of view!

Cheers.
5,927 views 50 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
*burp*....*scratch scratch*......*torrential fart*.....who's not civil?
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey if you know that you ain't no newcomer. It takes hours to discover that.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

And boy... people came right out of the wood work to attempt to shut me down.


Boy did you show your lack of internet community experience with this line!  I am sure many around here, including Miki, can tell you that you ain't seen nothing yet if you think people were trying to shut you down with the comments on that blog.  That was a pretty darn civil blog as far as the political ones go.  Stick around and things are bound to get really interesting.


There are some major history and politics junkies on this site.  You are guaranteed a run for your money when you post about either subject.


Best wishes.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
aww I'm finally included in something here. Am I no longer the balck sheep here? Does this mean JillUser may actually allow me, mikimouse, to post responses on her blogsite? Hmmmmm? Peace.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, I think I expressed my state of newness to this medium did I not? But thanks for your revelation of the same ilk. . Seriously Jill, I welcome dialogue and debate. But attacking the person delivering the debate as has been done repeatedly today, isn't debate. And I'll point that out -continuously, as I have done so ever so slightly in the first two sentences above. The problem with debate is that we think it's about one-upsmanship or proving the other wrong in a whimsical, insulting, or demoralizing way. And since it's easier to go that route than to speak/write with fact and data - we immediately go to "boy you have a chip on your shoulder" "boy are you showing your ignorance" etc. It does nothing for the argument - and I will point that out until you are either forced to join the argument or leave. It's that simple. Thanks for your warning. I'll be sure to put on the full armor of knowledge when speaking, and shut the hell up when I dont' know what I'm talking about. I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong - and when I'm not. *w*


Reply By: JillUser Posted: Thursday, June 10, 2004
And boy... people came right out of the wood work to attempt to shut me down.

Boy did you show your lack of internet community experience with this line! I am sure many around here, including Miki, can tell you that you ain't seen nothing yet if you think people were trying to shut you down with the comments on that blog. That was a pretty darn civil blog as far as the political ones go. Stick around and things are bound to get really interesting.

There are some major history and politics junkies on this site. You are guaranteed a run for your money when you post about either subject.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
No one can "shut you down", so none of us really are trying to do that. The response you got on the Reagan article was because you picked the day of someone's funeral to accuse them of tens of thousands of "needless" deaths.

Had you written an article on AIDS and made the comment, you probably wouldn't have gotten more than a grumble. Instead you used the platform of the man's death to make your point, essentially inviting Reagan fans to your party.

I applaud the audacity, but if you don't want your ideas vehemently challenged, you might wanna refrain from baiting folks that will do it.

Either way, it seemed like a good conversation to me.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
No one can "shut you down", so none of us really are trying to do that. The response you got on the Reagan article was because you picked the day of someone's funeral to accuse them of tens of thousands of "needless" deaths.


Exactly! And to ask for civility when displaying a total LACK of respect and civility for the dead...well, the irony is probably lost in the rhetoric....
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

Blogging can be pretty rough. Believe me. You should see the comments I get.  Heck, you should see the EMAIL I get. Oooof!

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
When I saw your post I thought to myself, on this site, it was like Salman Rushdie eating a pork sandwich in an Iranian mosque.
I do not adhere to this idea that, just because someone dies, that we should whitewash their past....the absolute worst I saw was Princess Dianna.....and if anyone disagrees with me tell me this, what would you have said if Saddam had died in the war?....I bet you wouldnt have thought it too disrespectful to talk about his warts. I will no doubt be roundly abused for that one likening Reagan to Saddam....
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
For those of you who appear to be somehow painfully wounded by the audacity of my mere suggestion that "lets not forget..." I would emplore you to go visit damn near any news media site who recapped more woes than I did yesterday. Poetmom, the man accepted public office and with that comes inordinate scrutiny of every detail of one's life. I don't share your opinion of him. I will not turn a blind eye to his failings and prop him up to be something he was not. End of discussion. BakerStreet - being new to this room and site, I don't think it's fair to say that I knowling baited folks into such a state. I did not, however, realize that this medium was void of any left leaning commentary. For that, I'm happy to say I'll be a thorn in your collective sides for some time to come. Secondly, no disrespect was meant to any of you - unless you were a part of policy making or the political scene of the era in which we speak. If you are not capable of engaging a public debate in a room explicitely designed for such - move on. If you prefer to linger in the moment of his death with poetry, prose, and song - visit another site. Or at least another channel. Draginol, despite the apparent lack restraint in using personal insults and attacks by many yesterday, I actually enjoyed the dialogue a bit - and learned a bit too.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

I did not, however, realize that this medium was void of any left leaning commentary. For that, I'm happy to say I'll be a thorn in your collective sides for some time to come.

hehe....you might want to spend a bit more time on the site before you make comments like that.  Trust me, there are plenty of "left" thinkers and opinions on this site.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
well, it's day 3 KarmaGirl for me; but trust me, I'll do just that. I spent so much time wiping the spit off my face by those who were so deeply, personally and mortally wounded at my audacity of expressing my right of free speech, I didn't get a chance to see much else.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

well, it's day 3 KarmaGirl for me; but trust me, I'll do just that. I spent so much time wiping the spit off my face by those who were so deeply, personally and mortally wounded at my audacity of expressing my right of free speech, I didn't get a chance to see much else.

hmmmm.....  I think you might have a rough time here is you think that was the case.  That discussion was very polite compared to most of the political discussions I have seen.  For example, I was told: "you yourself need to start preparing for the excruciating pain and misery of hell, your rightful desert for being such a failure, for blinding yourself from the supreme and glorious liberal Truth, the one and only answer. There can be no compromise."

So, if you think the comments on your article where "spit" on your face, you might find the real debates a bit too rough.

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
KarmaGirl, debates shouldn't include insults - and I simply won't tolerate it. If folks can't discuss the issues without calling eachother names - or being smar asses then I'm not interested in it. They will be blacklisted, or I'll remove the article, or I will stay out of that debate. That's what's wrong with this country and increasing the level of intolerance between the left and right. Yesterday I was insulted with nearly each and every post. And I'm going to point that out to folks a few times - and if they don't get the fact that I welcome their criticism of my debate, but not insults of me, then I'll take action. That damn simple. The example you site is equally unacceptable. No matter which side it comes from. And simply saying it's the state of the room is to give in. I challenge each every person to elevate the dialogue as Draginol and BakerStreet did (albeit with a few insults). We can disagree... even passionately, but we don't have to think the other person is less of a human being because they have indications liberal, conservative or otherwise. My thin skin has a sliding scale, trust me. I'm a passionate, loving, caring person - capable of great fun, humor and introspect - but I grew up one of seven children in the rural appalachian mountains (the caves someone referenced yesterday, lol) and I can defend myself. So, it may sound like I'm belly achin'... but I'm not. I'm am however, going to relentlessly point out when people are attacking me instead of my arguement. And I hope if I slip and do the same to someone else, they will call me out on it.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
if anyone disagrees with me tell me this, what would you have said if Saddam had died in the war?....I bet you wouldnt have thought it too disrespectful to talk about his warts. I will no doubt be roundly abused for that one likening Reagan to Saddam....


I believe that when someone dies, out of respect for those who ARE sad, and ARE mourning them, you either say something nice or say nothing at all....after the mourning period is over, then that changes. So, anything negative that anyone wants to say about Reagan. why not save it until tomorrow, and show a little respect during this solemn week? Is that too much to ask??
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Poetmom, the man accepted public office and with that comes inordinate scrutiny of every detail of one's life. I don't share your opinion of him. I will not turn a blind eye to his failings and prop him up to be something he was not. End of discussion.


You don't know if you share my opinion of him or not, as I have yet to state it....I would be just as fanatical about my belief that you show respect during the mourning period no matter WHO the President was that we were burying....I've seen five of them buried now in my lifetime, and I have felt this way about all of them...leave the negative out of it until after he's buried and the ceremonial stuff is over. End of discussion? Not likely.....
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
I was quite amused when I read this article. In the process of stating:

debates shouldn't include insults


you include, in the same article:

Your intolerant, rascist, homophobic, classist, and arrogant remarks will not go un-checked.


I suppose you don't view this as an insulting remark because it isn't directed at YOU??? It's a very insulting remark.

I went back a re-read the oringinal article and I found it interesting that you were the first one to hurl a personal insult at someone:

This is exactly how people like you spread lies. Congrats!


Directly calling someone a liar. A personal insult of the highest order. Now I do acknowledge that you did later apologize for it and said it was a "poor choice of words", but it doesn't alter the fact that you were the first to insult someone. If you don't want your thread reduced to insults, don't do it yourself.

Another example of an insult hurled by YOU

I said nothing of McDonalds? Please continue to elaborate on topics that I didn't mention, your attempt to obfuscate the matter proves my point that you'll do anything to run from the truth.


This was in response to someone siting an example to illustrate their point, which was in response to a point you mentioned. I don't recall them saying you did mention McDonalds, it was an illustration. You used it as an opportunity to hurl a personal insult.

Now, I agree with you that one should not stoop to personal insults. Anyone doing so in any thread of mine has their comment deleted as soon as I see it. And that is whether the insult is directed at me or anyone else in the thread. I do not use personal insults in any of my posts, unless of course it's a humorous posting and the other person knows (hopefully) that I'm kidding.

If you don't don't want insults in your threads, don't use them yourself. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black. You may or may not have actually intended the insults as such, but they were. This only invites return insults. See my point? Or am I just spouting
intolerant, rascist, homophobic, classist, and arrogant remarks
???????
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
MasonM: *nod*

I noticed the same several times in the other discussion too.

GeoATL: Get used to it. That is about as civil as you'll get.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Let me restate for those of you just joining - you may attack my argument, but you may not attack me. The following statement I made - "Your intolerant, rascist, homophobic, classist, and arrogant remarks will not go un-checked." is NOT an insult, it's stating a fact. Read the complete thread above an you will see clear and distinct insults aimed at me that fit into each othese categories.


Reply By: MasonM Posted: Friday, June 11, 2004
I was quite amused when I read this article. In the process of stating:

debates shouldn't include insults


you include, in the same article:

Your intolerant, rascist, homophobic, classist, and arrogant remarks will not go un-checked.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
With all due respect, I chose not to "get used to it" but challenge it. And if we could all agree to keep the insults out of the discussion - and we're all human, it's hard not to respond to someone who tells you that you lived in a cave, don't have a grasp of the English language, etc - but if we can focus on the topic the debate, we're much likely to all get more out of it. But then again, some aren't here for the debate I suppose, they're just here for the "punch and run" as I call it. I'll do my best to truly engage the conversation with those who challenge my argument and do so without trying to kick me in the balls in the process.


Reply By: BakerStreet Posted: Friday, June 11, 2004
MasonM: *nod*

I noticed the same several times in the other discussion too.

GeoATL: Get used to it. That is about as civil as you'll get.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you can't see how that is an insulting remark, I don't know what else to tell you. You obviously have your own conception of what constitutes an insulting remark. Basically, anyone who's viewpoint differs from your own would find that a highly insulting, not to mention condescending remark. Perhaps it's only insulting if it is directed at you and those who hold your views?

Your intolerant, rascist, homophobic, classist, and arrogant remarks will not go un-checked


I would ask anyone else reading this thread to answer this one. Does anyone else find that to be a condescending, insulting remark?
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Death is no reason to sugarcoat the guy's past. Dead or not, he was a bad guy.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mason, let me ask you... did you see any remarks made toward me that meet any of those classifications above? If so, am I not warranted to establish the fact that the remarks were made and that I will not tolerate such personal attacks?