Semantics or did I live too sheltered of a life as a child?

Lastpick,

Interesting point.

"Good" and "evil" are subjective terms meaning different things to everyone. In Galciv, an evil civilization will exploit its civilian population to gain an advantage, whereas a good one will suffer economically to protect it.

In terms of instigating a war, I see no reason why a "good" civilization would not start one. When you say that you did not provoke the Altarians, how do you know? Perhaps you have a base they covet. Perhaps they perceive a threat from you. Many "good" (at least believing they were morally superior) civilizations (U.S., Britain, Roman Empire)have initiated wars in which there was no physical provocation (such as a pre-emptive attack).

Examples--The Crusades, the Falkland War, the Civil War, Vietnam, Gulf War II. In all cases, an ideology was being challenged, and the "good" civilization chose to

Forgive me for saying so, but I think your notions of "good" and "evil" are too black and white. Good civilizations, while generally less agressive than evil ones, will still commit less-than-moral acts. Likewise, evil ones will sometimes surprise you. In my current game, the insidious Drengin sent me free military aid (two ships) in my war against the evil Yor Empire (all moralities are randomized).

And honestly, the unpredictability makes galciv a great game. How fun would it be if every civilization subscribed to your notions of morality? You would constantly make dead-on guesses about their intentions, and the game would be less of a challenge. You sound intelligent, and I know you must like a challenge and a good fight (although hopefully this won't turn into one).

Good, evil, they both fight for survival. They will both react to perceived threats to that survival, and although their exact means will differ significantly, particularly in terms of how many civilians die in the moral pop-ups, they will attack you.

In short, the "good" Altarians perceive some need to conquer you. Perhaps they are liberating you before a rival civilization takes you over. Who knows?

"There is no good and evil. There is only power and those to weak to seek it." -Lord Voldemort.

Peace,
JD

Okay I admit that I made it a little black and white but taking what you have said one would also assume that there would be some sort of Diplomatic contact from a 'good' empire prior to initiating a military strike. Throughout history you are correct in say that 'good' civilization have commited less than moral acts but I would counter by saying that they don't happen overnight. There is almost always a lot of events that lead up to declaring a war on someone.

The main point I wanted to make is that the idea of morals is a very subjective one and maybe it is not the best candidate to use for presenting to the player how a civilization compares in its social thinking to your own empire. Maybe it should read more like idealogical shift with a reading left or right of your own hence my initial subject heading of semantics.

Anyways, I digress just letting of steam over the fact that with the AI set to a combination of normal and bright I can't even seem to compete in the universe without some neighbor deciding that the only way to deal with humans is to make them into slaves or bone fleck jam...

~SDC~

JD28,
somehow I don't feel that quoting Voldemort strengthens your argument.

lastpick,
rather than debate the point with you I will simply note that yes, the problem of justifying warlike actions while seeking to be good is an ancient and deep problem. However classic religious/philosophical works on the subject always conclude that morality is not eqivalent to pacifism. Granted, this only proves that people through time have preferred these works -- not that they are correct. Still,

"... if you will not take the universal opinion of mankind, I have no more to say." -- don't recall the reference.

If you read the GalCiv manual, they specifically address "Good" vs. "Evil". They add the specific disclaimer that they are not trying to define or argue over what is good or evil, they were only trying to define what it is in the context of this game.

~SDC~

Pg. 15 of the GalCiv .pdf manual:

Good & Evil
What kind of civilization would you like to create? Galactic Civilizations allows you to travel in either direction. In Galactic Civilizations, good and evil are very specifically defined (lest we get into endless, pointless debates). During the course of your civilization you will be exposed to various events that require you to make a moral choice. These choices determine the course your civilization takes. The choices are not meant to be that significant in themselves but rather provide you with a way to choose your path.
Neither path is better than the other in terms of advantages. But they are quite different in their particulars. Good civilizations tend to get along with other civilizations easier. An evil civilization in a galaxy full of good civilizations is going to have a tough time. On the other hand, evil civilizations gain advantages as a result of their choices, along with receiving certain technologies available only to evil civilizations.
On the other hand, good civilizations tend to have an easier time diplomatically but pay a hefty short-term price for their benevolence. However, they are rewarded with certain technologies that give them special types of improvements that affect the course of the game.
That said, good and evil is not determined by your in-game actions. For instance, do not equate "goodness" with pacifism. History is replete with examples of evil that was not externally aggressive. And all it requires for evil to triumph is for good to be idle. Don't expect good civilizations to declare war on other civilizations or demand tribute.
Galactic Civilizations doesn't get into the business of trying to make political statements such as whether imperialism is good or evil. History is replete with examples of otherwise noble cultures making war or acquiring territory from other cultures that were equally “good”. To that end, we have made sure that the line between good and evil is very obvious - the random events in which players can choose which direction they're going.


~SDC~

Windscion,

No, quoting him does not appear to, but if you look at the meaning of the words themselves and not the source (either Lord Voldemort or the "children's book, whichever you're taking issue with), it makes an interesting point within the context of the game.

Whether the Galciv player is portraying a "good" or "evil" civilization, both are actively trying to win the game. This is achieved through power, either of the military sort or of the cultural influence variety. If the player seeks neither form of power, then the civilization dies from the weakness. Hence, the quote applies, provided that you can separate it from the source.

Take care,
JD