YIN- YIN-

Starbase Suggestion:

Starbase Suggestion:

[Sorry if this has been suggested already, but there is no search function on this forum.]

With the exception of resources, allow for the creation of starbases *ONLY* in the orbit of a colonized system.

BENEFITS:

1) Capturing resources would have much greater strategic value;

2) You'd be limited in the number of starbases you could build, which would help limit the 'effects of scale' currently somewhat easily done by building bases ad-naseum;

3) The AI would be much more likely to target these starbases around your system as opposed to 'not seeing' the mega bases tucked in the corner of a sector giving your defenders massive ability to survive wave after wave of attack. This, in turn, would give much more strategic emphasis to defending the space *around* your systems;

4) This would encourage colonizing otherwise 'worthless' systems thereby lending more strategic use of the map;

5) This would encourage building up your fewer starbases to maximum in a number of categories rather than having dedicated culture ones (for example) simply 'culture bombing' other sectors.

6) You could no longer 'push' starbases. You could only put them in a new sector once you've colonized a system there, lending more emphasis to actually using your military/colony ships.

7) This increased focus on colonizing more planets would help address some of the morale challenges of overcrowded planets and give you reason to keep trying to expand throughout the game.

8) Finally, as a potential side benefit, since the starbases would be in orbit of your systems, it would be much quicker to update the starbases with constructor ships (assuming the constructor isn't going to another orbit at some point, as it certainly will with later start-ups). This might help improve the pacing and decrease some of the micro-management associated with nearly endless constructor production and starbase updates.
3,562 views 73 replies
Reply #26 Top
why not just give maintenance to the starbases? Afterall, it is the maintenance that keeps you from having zillions of ships and all the improvements on your planets.

Starbases should incure a maintenance penalty on the order of .5 per module. That prevents you from building lots of fully-loaded starbases but does not limit you if you have the income to pay for it (and thus sacrifice something else).

The AI should still be taught how to deal with starbases though.

~SDC~
Reply #27 Top
'hydroponic garden' or 'biosphere', huh? Sounds very MOOish to me, NameLess77. ;)

A maintenance penalty on SBs should be implemented. The whole idea that once you build them, they're free money, production, etc. is a bit far fetched.
Reply #28 Top
While I like Honor's suggestion about adding a maintenance penalty to Starbases, I think I'd rather see a large penalty for the Starbase structure itself and then minimal to no penalty for additional structures.

If balanced correctly that would encourage less starbases with more modules. I'd rather see built up starbases in key areas rather than see starbases in every sector of the galaxy.

Perhaps to incorporate some other ideas:

- increase starbase maintenance based on distance from the closest "friendly" colony.

- increase starbase maintenance if you have "too many" starbases.

A "friendly" colony could be defined in any number of ways depending on how you wanted to influence starbase development. It could be specifically your own colonies, your or allied colonies, or any colony of a race you are not at war with.

Too many being a threshold that could be based on the number of colonies owned, some hard set limit, or based on technology advances.

This type of soft limit would make for some interesting strategic decisions about where and when to build starbases. Do you go over your limits and spend more on upkeep or be more conservative with stabase construction to save money?
Reply #29 Top
rob,

I think that's a great idea- but I'd like a *little* extra maint. for modules with the initial outlay costing more, as you said.

~SDC~
Reply #30 Top
Throwing this in here, but these costs should be tied to difficulty level since I've seen many people learning the game or who are not hardcore players get upset when tweaks like this make the game even harder for them.
Reply #31 Top
Maybe have different types of SBs, like Orbital SBs, System SBs, and Deep Space SBs. With each type having their own advantages and disadvantages.

All could have mining modules for resources, but maybe Orbital SBs only have access to modules with planetary and trade improvements, while System SBs only have access to modules with ship and culture improvements. Deep Space SBs could be used for range and culture improvements.

Could even create some new modules off of this idea - population growth, research, and planetary defense modules for the Orbital SBs, for instance. Spying for Deep Space SBs.
Reply #33 Top
Yin, if you would allow I would like repeat some ideas to the topic out of other threads: (It seems that your thread will stay at the top for a while at least)

"Simple solutions would be: Limit the number of allowed starbases per sector / 5 per sector or 1 for each populatet planet + 2 per sector.

Pay upkeep for starbases: (high) basic costs for a starbase if you have a starbase in the sector and even (much higher cost) if you don´t have a planet in the sector or have more starbases than planets

Scale down effect of starbases: at the moment 2 starbases 200 % bonus (100%+ 100%)
make it 2 starbases 150% bonus ( 100% for first starbas + 50% for second starbase)

New starbases won´t have their full economic/ culture effect when they are build/ or enter in a new sector. They should need for the first 1-2 years scaling the effect slowly up

Somebody else suggested to limit the number of modules though you will have to think about the use of the starbase. Will it be a terror star or full scale mining colony or something in between."

Ability to order a colony to support a certain starbase (build constructors and send them there), Rallying points




~SDC~
Reply #34 Top
A maintenance cost for starbases makes sense.

Also, it might help if the bonuses from multiple starbases in the same sector didn't stack.
Reply #35 Top
Midnightsun,

Just a small correction to your summary. Currently, 2 starbases with bonuses of 100% will give you 400% since bonuses across starbases are multiplied (as opposed to bonuses on the same starbase which are just added).

Reply #36 Top
Midnightsun:

Anything to keep the coversation moving in a product direction is a big help from where I sit! Thanks. :)
Reply #38 Top
padluck: Why do you say bonuses are multiplied? Looking at my systems with seven or eight starbases the bonuses seem to be pretty clearly getting added.

If it was multiplication, two starbases at 100% would give you 10,000%, not 400%. Seven or eight starbases would be giving me at least 5 _trillion_ percent more, not the 900% or so they're giving me.
Reply #39 Top
Daetrinn,

I read somewhere that different starbase bonuses are multiplied, but I don't remember exactly where.

Your math is incorrect. Two multiplied bonuses of 100%, would in fact be 400%

Think of it this way, 1 bonus of 100% is:

x + (x * 100%) = x + x = 2x

2 Bonus of 100 % (which are multiplied and not added) is:

y + (y* 100%) where y = x + (x * 100%) = 2x
or
2x + (2x * 100%) = 2x +2x = 4x

If you had z number of starbases each with a bonus of 100%, your total would be:
x * 2^z

So for 7 starbases, that becomes 128 times or 12,800%
Reply #40 Top
i really like the idea of starbase bonuses accumulating over time so when you first build it, the bonus is a smidge, but over the course of 1-2 years, it ramps up to full value. This would solve the culture bomb cheese-aroni.

~SDC~
Reply #41 Top
Yeah that is an interesting idea... I wonder how that would play out.

~SDC~
Reply #43 Top
To combat the ISB problem, I would allow the bonuses to stack with some modifications. The suggestion listed below won't completely prevent the packed starbase city, but it will cut down on its power.

First, get the distance from the current starbase in question to the nearest starbase within the sector with an identical (or similar) module. Multiply this by the total bonus, and divide by five. This is how much the starbase gives for its bonus to whatever.

Regardless of how close two starbases are, they cannot have a net production below the base amount. Nor can two starbases on opposite sides of the sector amplify the bonuses by a ridiculous amount. (But nice try anyway. ;) )

This doesn't affect adjecent starbases located on opposite sides of a sector boundry, but that shouldn't matter too much because of how influence works.
Reply #44 Top
Padlock: Are you claiming that the information listed in the game is wrong? I just loaded up one of my save games, and disbanded a starbase that had a +65% bonus, which seemed to make no differene, so i disbanded a second one, still no change. Then i figured out that the planet info doesn't update right away! =P

However after going a few turns, Earth's production dropped from +880% to +750%, or 130%, the same as the two starbases i disbanded _added_ together. I then built a +5 and a +10 module on one of the other starbases in the sector, and the production went up to +765%. (Adding modulues updates instantly, only dispanding takes multiple turns to show up, wonder why?)

So are you saying that the number listed in the details screen is wrong? If so, i'll go back and do the math the harder way going straight off of the shields number.
Reply #45 Top
@Daetrinn As far as I have noticed economic bonuses add up and culture influence is multiplied

@Yin, I really like this game, its solid in its core and like you said "Anything to keep the coversation moving in a product direction is a big help from where I sit! Thanks"
Reply #46 Top
Daetrinn,

To be honest, I've never tried to confirm that the bonuses across multiple starbases multiply. I read it somewhere, and just assumed it was correct.

It could very well be wrong.
Reply #47 Top
I know that I posted earlier that culture is multiplied which it certainly seems to be which was my complaint since as Midnightsun said the other abilities are additive.
Reply #50 Top
Brad has stated in one thread (dunno which one anymore) that he's working on how the AI handles starbases. I know that's a different issue than this thread handles, but it in 'on his radar' I'd say.