Halut Ship MDL mod...

Thats the man who made thrm for me, made with at different program in 265 colours, the GES can't display them correctly (dunno why).
But they work fine on all systems I know that are running them.
I have never had a problem using the mdl as it was made. And no error has been reported to me!


btw
I would realy like to be contacted before someone is working (modifying) with stuff that "belongs" to me

NP

Anyway, check 7hor, it in fact can only show one face since the other seven are missing and the comand for it is illegal as it is for 32 faces in the command name. The error will appear in the game for 7hor race. If the MDL structures are correct, race 0 thru 5 and 35 should appear in the editor tools as well, but don't without locking it up for some reason.

I have found from strudying the all the original MDLs that the reason of 7 race designiation was so that the creator could produce a unique ship set for each race; i.e., so that a battle ship of one race doesn't appear the same as that of another. This is a preference issue, addmittedly. Anyway, none of the halut ship race set change appearace per race; the files are dupicates, except by color. Structuring an MDL this way results in a extra large file. To accomplish the same thing, the creator need only do one graphic set as race "35" which results in automatic colors being assigned according to ownship IF a mask is included in the MDL file for such purpose.

If you'd like this stuff fix and placed into proper MDL format, I can do that. As far as other errors being reported, unless a the player wathces closely as the AI player moves the 7hor, it's doubtful any error would be reported to you:

There isn't an email for reporting the error in the readme file (unless I missed it); there's no way to know if the original author is even still around (most are not) and will bother to reply; there's no way to know what forums the author might keep tabs on for public error reports; and, most players tend to be more concerned with thier own ship displaying properly, not paying close attention to AI ships. I'm glad you're still around

As to modifying? Sure, I'll ask if the author is around and leaves an email for such, if not, the effort is pretty public domain, technically. That's why I posted here, hoping you were around

I'd like to adapt the missile ship and perhaps a few of the other halut ships, if you're willing. They'd be nice to bring into a combine mod ship set, such as that as I've got on-line at my ftp currently. The MDL effort by yourself is one of just a limited number I've been able to find. Amaymon let me improve his Monsterious MDLs They (2 monster types) turned out pretty nice and are smaller files now.

As an example, Coplann also did some B5 MDLs, which I did some "clean-up" on, improved color identification of the White Star by ownership... I never released any of the adaptations officially since I've not been able to "contact" him or her (no means provided for such contact). However, one could argue the B5, Star Trek, etc, ships are public domain; or, worse case, still are TMs which are controlled by the TV show producers; subsequently, all the work people here do is "illegal." I doubt anyone ever contacted these people's lawyers before making MDLs which use protected TM artwork; yet, I doubt that they'd be concerned at this point if somebody made an "enterprise" or some such similar things as people have done here.

BTW, all the work I do is not TM protected or copywrited as I figure it belongs those in Hollywood and the SciFi book writers, accordingly. I can't afford TM costs, etc. Ergo, my work is public domain and may be modified freely by anyone. Sure, I'd like to credit for my efforts in MDL work; and I likewise credit original authors where known in my mod adaptations; and I've gone to great lengths to "credit" original authors in any public domain work I have "adapted" into my own mods. But "No," if Stardock is saying the work is belongs to them as MDLs, etc, that people give them as mods; and StarDock abtains TM protection (or whatnot) for such, paying the legal costs.... then sure, I'll leave it alone. But I get the impression they want open public modding and adaptations to happen freely. I've have yet to hear concerns from StarDock in that regard, given this discussion has been going on in other threads for some time now.

That was the idea, hard enought to find this few good (realistic Perry Rhodan based)images.

Thats ok, I just don't like if someone runs around and shouts "ERROR in your product" without speaking to me first!


You know that I'm "active" in the NT forum and I'm sure you have my email


Will think about that


I know that stuff, was "live" when one of this discussions was going on
It's just that I like to be informed about stuff going on, specially if it is connected to stuff I am involved in.


I'm not good at the GC graphic department, thats why I asked TurgotZ to make the Halut Pack graphics for me, and he did a great job (even if the files are a bit big).
I tested them with uncovered map (CRTL+U you know) and a special ship file, so I could be sure the AI would build them. and the views for all AIs (but the minors, who did not build them) showed up correctly.
Throu out the test month, there never was a report of any problems from other testers (there were 4 or 6 of them)
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Look, you're getting "defensive" for no reason. The fact is, everything we do as mods is public domain, is it not? We don't need each other's permission; ergo, it is silly to get upset about, especially if the original author is given credit in a readme file for any adaptations other users may create (many do by virtual of combining mods, fixing errors and spelling, and adjusting value for play balance and personal tastes). I won't fix the problems or improve the MDLs out of COURTEST to you, not because there is some sort of permission issue. There IS NONE. And out of courtesy to you, I will credit you in any adaptation I do which is perfectly within my scope to do; or for anyone else, for that matter. I will not in this case. The images really aren't my taste anyway. But they could benefit from animation and smaller file size if done "more correctly." (for lack of a better tactful way to say it)

BTW, Did you get permission to use images related to Perry Rhodan? Likely such is protected under copy-writes or as TM protected images. I personally don't care, as I see it as public domain issue like I think most people understand to be the case.

Errors:

Look, I'm not crying "Wolf" here. There are no issues of "ego" or "selfishness" here unless you want to make it that. Besides, I like a lot of what you done as mods and use them in my own games. There are just facts and the issue if you'll fix them or not; if not, then let others do it, because you have nothing to lose, and we all gain if original work can be improved in collective efforts.

There are issues with the Halut MDL: here is the PROOF in a jpg (I'd post it here, but this forum won't permit that):

http://users.rcn.com/aulonacara/Galatic%20Civ/

Simply click on the 7hor jpg to view the screen shot. I don't have a reason to "lie" about this stuff to you; let me repeat, I like a lot of your mods and use them in my own games! I'm trying to do YOU the favor of reporting proved facts to you. Why folks haven't noticed issues before may well be that they simply weren't very observant during the game or were being, perhaps, "Yes Men" (as the expression goes) for reasons of excessive courtesy. Who knows? I don't care; neither should you, except to get such fixed (I would hope).

BTW, most don't know how to use the Sprite Editor either (or didn't have access to it). It is in the editor where errors are easy to find; and it is far more time consuming to look for them in the game. You don't need to be a graphics expert to turn on the MDL Sprite Editor and view the files!!! Regardless, the point is the errors in fact exist:

The utility MDL SPRITE Editor 1.06 (Dark Rain's utility, if I recall correctly) will dispay all MDLs and contents if there are no errors (a fact); it displays all those original files of the game with NO exceptions. It simply isn't debatable. Simply turn on the tool and look for yourself!!!

Notice the missing image frames in the 7Hut Default_A32C1 file! Notice the rather excessive image size! 64x64 is what is recommend, not 128x128 for the default game screen image sprite. That may well also cause problems in the game if the image reaches too far beyond the grid boundies (don't know for sure) and interfer with spite collision mechanics of the program (?). It might be the game engine is refusing to use this spite due to the internal error, and that is why you or others haven't subsequently seen the error! You'd have to hope race 7 builds the ship in order to see the error! Or give race 7 the ship in a trade deal to see the problem.

Unanswered, is why the other MDL files 0 through 5 and 35 crash the viewer; if the pallet size is excessive, then how was the imaged manipulated in the first place? What utilities were used? And why do all the StarDock MDL files display just fine in the MDL viewer/editor whereas this Halut MDL does not? These are fair questions, especailly since there are only a few viewers said to be available for spite creation and edits (the StarDock viewer/editor and the viewer/editor by Dark Rain). What other MDL Sprite Editor/Viewers are there for Star Dock MDLs? Links?

CRTL+U for uncovered map? A cheat? No, I never came across something that explains all the cheat codes (yet), as I don't use cheats. To view ship work, I simply set the Tech_Requirement_ID to zero, cost to 1, speed to 30, and maintenace to zero --- then play the game normally to see them and test them. Ships need to be given to AI players in trade deals to insure they change color when using the race 35 tags in Sprite creation to limit file size by a factor of 5 (maybe a tad more). If the ship design will be the same for all races, then it is ignorance (like I had when first learning this stuff) to create 7 sets of duplicate ship sets; one for each race, rather than to use the race 35 tag and a mask; doing so does the same thing automaticly!! So much easier! Smaller file sizes too! The only reason to make seven sets of the exact same ship model would be if color defaults were not desirable; but that is still a pretty weak arguement or reason.



[Message Edited]

Some of TurgotZ MDLs do that dunno why, I do also not know what tools he used (and its hard to ask, since he disapeared)


I do almost the same. I have a special ship file, with high stats and no tech need. just add the img and play.
If the values are high enough the AI will buld this ships instead of usual first ships; then just enable cheats, disable Fog of war and see the ships in action.
(of cause only for testing new stuff)


Never had a problem with overstepping the grinds and the SOL image and the Starbase.mdl (from the Star Trek mod) do that.
I noticed that the images are rather big (file size) and wondered, but they worked so there as no reason for searching a reason.


I think you misinterpreted my previous statement. Nothing against finding a possible problem, and telling me, its just that I like to be the first to know and consider a way of repairing before making it public (thats way my mods take so long to get published).
As I said TurgotZ made them they were tested by experienced players (and testers) and there was never a problem reported.


btw only few PR related things are actually copyrighted (must have something to do with the age (some is more then 35 years old)) and this ships are made after book covers, and artworks. some of them are not realy close to the real look of PR spacecrafts (the original authors are making very detailed descriptions)

Well dont want to argue about CR here.

back to topic:

Could you give me ingame shots that show this error (only one frame) you are refering to, or does it only show up in the GES?


If you would rework the HalutPackShips (down size file, fix this possible problem) thats ok.

But I don't want them to come up with flashy animations.
Nthing against animations in general, but it won't fit the ships. If you ever come across a PR book (andromeda or Laren cycle) and closely read them, you will understand why I think this way.
[Message Edited]

There are no graphic glitches with any ships in the game! NONE! LOL

Here speaks one of my guinea pigs for the HPSG mod LOL

I can report what the Viewer shows. I suggest somebody look at the race for the 7hor image and get it to make a ship (or give such to it). I'll look into this more closer this coming weekend. I didn't want to test this in the game after seeing the problems in the Sprite Editor. But if it is working, then I'll give it a try and verify the 7hor image appears correctly.

As you mentioned I could condense the file, I can do that based on the working file that do appear in the editor. I will have to make a mask so that color asignments will be automatic to each race that will use only one core image set, instead of the 7 dupilicate sets now being used. No animation? Ok. Animation is fairly time consuming anyway. But if I do this, you'll have a fully "correct" MDL that will responded correctly in the Spite Editor and be much smaller. I will send the result directly to you.

As Copywrites go, they are usually renewed by the publishers of the book(s) every 7 years (I think) if the book is still in print (is it?). My point is issues of "public domain" and that most people doing what we do is something considered as "fan" activity, and fans will NOT be considered in violation if the work is NOT sold and proper credit is given, which is what I do regarding any mod I adapt from this site. It is no different. But if I happenned upon an actual author, as with you, then sure, I'll ask as a matter of courtesy. But in doing a combined-mods-package of my own (at my FTP), for me to try and contact all the people whom have done mods here is just insane and a far too time consuming process, especially since very few are around or leave a way for themselves to be contacted. Never mind the fact I'm not in violation of the laws of any kind that I know of, nor ethicly if I've given original authors credit in the mod adaptations as I've done.

Sorry to discuss this stuff, but it needs to be "aired-out" if people want to combine mods without recieving unnecessary complaints from original authors. Combining mods that users have down-loaded for thier games is a tricky business, then those who have done so may want to share the result due to the problem-matic nature of combining mods (most don not want to attempt that), as I'm sure you know.



[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]

Ok, got home and had a few minutes to look in-game at this. Yes, in the game the problem DOES exist. Let me point out that play-testers could easily miss seeing this error. In order to see an error, a player would need to make every ship type in the MDL under his or her ownership, then give a ship of each type to each race, then HOPE the race moves the ship at least once in ALL EIGHT directions in order for you to see proper functioning of graphics (or not). That is a whole lot of HOPING!!! That's 64 total faces (8 for directions/faces for one ship, of each of a total of 8 races; for only ONE class of ship, but there are 5 Halut classes of ships, so that's 320 total faces/directions of movement that need to be seen); and that doesn't include testing the ID tag, race 35, for minor races. So you see, simply just "playing the game" with a new MDL installed does NOT mean you will see error in the graphics of MDLs unless you deliberately do as I just instructed. It will a very long time consuming play-test process. In the case of 7hor (which is the Lighting Ship; 7 is player 7, which is the Drath, color orange), this is an easy error to see, since there are 7 of 8 possible facings missing (as I was trying to say).

So let me repeat: errors are a million times easier to see in the MDL Sprite viewer, rather than in the game. If the systax is correct for properly created graphics in the viewer, then it will always be correct in the game.

The proof is shown in this screen shot done while playing the game (not possible to display on these forums due to screen shots not being allowed in it's features):

Click the file 7hor_ingameerror.jpg to see the error in the game. In this screen shot, I gave the Drath AI player a 7hor ship (Lighting ship). The Mini Map shows the orange "blip" of the ship's loacation, and I've got the game selector circle on the ship, showing it to be "invisable." This is due to missing graphics for the movement in that direction as decided by the AI in determining which direction to move the ship I had just given it.

http://users.rcn.com/aulonacara/Galatic%20Civ/

Do you believe me now? Or do you still think I'm just a nobody attacking you?

Do you realy take it that personal that I wanted a proof for what you said?

I respect your work, hell I asked you for some mdls for my newest work. Never said something that was supposed to be disrespectable.

So there is a problem with the race 7 mdl, do you think you can fix this issue; Without changing too much of the ships looks?

I wanted to see what your talking about myself, like I said I have been testing and playing with his Mods for the past year. The Big Pack is no different, no problems with any ships that I noted.

Of course I never allowed the AI to get very far in research before I won the games. Maybe this is why I never seen anything odd but still thanks for showing what it was. It seems you get rather upset over this stuff for some reason. Your not a nobody and no one should be attacking anyone!! LOL

Ok, perhaps I over-reacted this time, I appologize. It's the negative tone that you came across with at the beginning when you said this:

"...I just don't like if someone runs around and shouts 'ERROR in your product' without speaking to me first!"

I wasn't shouting, I was relating facts that you came across as being rather doubious about to my view, as if I didn't know what I was talking about; and, instead was perhaps attacking you in some manner. I felt it was an uncalled for remark.

It isn't unethical or rude to mention potential problems about a mod(s) in the public doman within a mod section of a forum which is for discussing mods; in effect I was trying to bring it to your attention or to the attention of anyone that might have some answers; and I did so while mentioning that perhaps I had recieve a bad down-load that may have had errors - Is that possible? I don't know. At this junction, I think I did get a good down-load, and any problems were pre-existing.

Water Under The Bridge?

As far as play testing... if you truely want to play test for possible errors, then you would need to specificly take the time and "HOPE" each AI moves each ship of an MDL through all 8 possible directions in order to be able to see any gfx errors related to missing gfx segments, whatever. Did you really do that 320 times? That's a lot of work. My point is, most people "play test" by just playing the game, checking for general sorts of things (even I do); but to truely check a MDL in-game, is a very time consuming process as I described earlier. Therefore, it would be easy for people to miss seeing this sort of error, especially since graphic errors or syntax errors in the MDL usually result in invisable ships (some or total)... such can be hard to "see" if you get my meaning.

Fixing....

The problem is the other 5 player data files (zero to 5, and race 35) won't unpack by using the MDL Sprite Viewer/Editor. If there is a excessive amount of bits in the Sprite file pallets (out of range), then the Sprite Editor will, in fact, report this. In this case, it does not. So whatever is preventing the Sprite Editor from openning the first 6 player (race) data files is an unknown error to me. The player 6 (Korx) and player 7 (Drath) data files open OK, and the Korx file is perfect with no errors.

I can fix the Drath file, then repack the MDL as a favor. It's not a very time consuming affair.

What would be the result of making a condensed new MDL file? At this point, I've lost interest in doing this, but this is helpful to know:

In order to make a condensed new MDL file, one is required to use the race 35 tag; meaning all players use the same gfx set and color set where AI adjust the gfx set to thier respective colors via a mask. What you lose is the current color schemes in exchange for internal game color defaults (Altarian, pale green; Arcean, yellow; Torian, green; Yor, purple; Minor is several browish colors; Korx, pinkish; Drath, orange).

Masks... The default AI colors will ONLY appear where the mask is designed to make them appear. It could be fairly minor thing on each ship; or just as an out-line of each ship (looks too much like a shield, however); or just mask a certain marking the ship already uses, say a stripe, whatever. A mask is basically a "ship" of only certain choice parts of the original ship which are desired to be colorized by the AI race colors defaults; and, those exact same regions of the original ship are "blacked-out" and transparent with the back-ground color. The two files must otherwise be exact copies of each other so that the two images form a complete a final graphic of the complete ship, fully "assembled," so to speak.

[Message Edited]

Does the Big Pack actually have new ship specific MDLs? I must have missed seeing these. Might check it out. Thanks for mentioning it.

The newest version has mdls for 9 ships (+Starbase, Space and Stars mdls), but thats a version only open to three relyable testers, who do report problems to me.

Not like some others that took my mods betas as a prepublish adding without ever giving any feedback (this saddly happend throu all 3 big GC Mod Packs)
[Message Edited]

So it's not (yet) up-loaded in the library here (or elsewhere)? I didn't see it in the ship, improvements, or misc section (?).

Were you ever able to do anything with those few ship MDLs I did for you? I'd be interested in whatever you may have come up with as opposed to what I used them for in my own installed version of AP (in so far as any *.SHIP file can say just about anything, as legal syntax, of course, and be associated with practically any MDL available).

Let me know if you want the Halut ship MDL fixed for the Drath AI. If you say nothing, I'll ignore it.

People should note I never "release" any MDLs I create for others or for myself "officially" due to my really only being interested in what I use them for in my own games, sharing such results "unofficially" at my ftp. So whatever MDLs I do for people (or for myself) is entirely up to them to release officially here at StarDock with associated star dot SHIP files that say what is intended in thier minds for a particular MDL gfx (mine or thiers). There is certainly is no ethical reason why an MDL can't have lots of various sorts of associated star dot SHIP files as various sorts of released mods (I would imagine it is already common place given the mod-ability of the various game files). Plus, whatever I do in this "unofficial" manner is fully public domain and may be modified anyway anybody wants without "my" permission (of course, it would be nice if I'm given due "credit" for original MDL work that become adaptions - in readme files).

An aside, I thought about tossing in an "Easter Egg" of sorts, a little humor, into a ship design.... heh, do one as a simple "Pacman" that uses a specific weapon animation that launches several small animated pacman that "try" to "eat" the enemy ship; heh, using the actual arcade sounds in addition to the graphics. It would be funny.... have it near the end of the tech tree as a new discovery mixed in with some other regular ship MDL package somebody might release.

The "Pacman" graphic would be easy enough, but does anyone know where I might find a sound file of some of the sounds associated with the classic arcade "Pacman?" Without the sounds, it would be pointless, I think.

Lastly, I'm still taking "requests." All I need is a jpg, gif, bmp, etc, of the ship image you wish changed into a ship (smaller, the better; top-down views are the most useful); give any special desires you might have for appearance; and note all MDLs I do are tag 35 (as described in earlier posts in this thread). Simply post a link to your baseline image. My wrist got pretty sore awhile back from all the graphics work I was doing, so I had to stop entirely, but it has finally healed. I do have a limited amount of free time to make new MDLs on occassion. Understand, any artwork I do for somebody may be used in my own MDLs for my own versions of star dot SHIP files beyond what you have planned for a particular MDL; but, again, such as I do will never be released "offically," just "unoffically" at my ftp, though such may be mentioned in forums. In any event, I doubt I have time for more than a few MDLs per month. I always will credit (in readme files) to original sources (when known) for artwork that MDLs artwork is based apon. Be sure to mention original authors (when known) for base-line images you provide to me as a "starting point."

My graphics knowledge is still fairly limited, especially 3-d look'n sorts of things, but that is improving with time. So my doing new Starbase designs is still beyond me if full animation is desired. Simple 2D Starbases are not a problem. But every-day sorts of ships? NP to do those, even with a tad bit of animation (running lights, beacons, engine glow or flame-fire, weapons glow, and/or shields).




[Message Edited]

Regarding requests... there is something that is nagging me for quite some time now...

But this is a HUGE request, and i don't know if it's possible...

Here http://www.geocities.com/guildshand/

you will find nearly all StarTrek Ships that turgotZ once made (including the original monster file i requested).

Some of the ships have errors, like no model for the minor races (resulting in invisible ships...), some won't work (with my GalCiv, like the once Vorlon ship - thanks again -) at all.

As turgotZ has disappeared, there is no one here to finish his work....

Would be nice if you could fix the problem

Icho, I fix it this weekend. NP

Amayon, wow, that's quite the list of ships! Hrm, what exactly needs doing?

So these are the Star Trek ships. I never fully tied that mod out. At the time I was loving the challenge to figure out the Spite Tools, and whatnot. Those ships are pretty cool.

I see mostly 6 player sets and a few of player 7. Am I seeing that right?

So what needs doing? AI 7? Were some other missing? They all seem to be there (?). If they are in the base MDL, I can fix them if the MDLs are loadable in the the Sprite Editor. What I mean, is, the gfx could be there for some of the ships not appearing, but with errant syntax, they are invisable. That kind of error is easy to fix even if the graphic needs to be rotated (etc). If a entire AI ship set of all classes is missing, then I'd need all the single image shots of ships desired to represent each given class in order to begin. And if most of AI 7 is missing all raw data, that's a lot of work and I have no idea what is desired. Which Trekkie ships was TurgotZ going to use for AI 7? And would I have permission to continue the effort? Obviously TurgotZ can't be contacted? He's done a lot of nice work here. Alone? I guess I need to look in the MDLs for a closer idea about AI 7. Hmm, also looks like Tag 35 for minors is missing? Unless I'm see most of race 6 and 7 missing? I'll look at the MDL later this week.

And to verify: we are talking about the Star Trek mod mentioned in these forms, right?

Gotta rush off to take care of other things, sorry to be short and choppy in my looking at this tonight.

Uh, i haven't checked all ships of those packages. Just noticed some time ago that the first two ships i tested were "invisible" when i sold them to Minors. As far as i know those ships are the ships used in the StarTrek Mod, yes. I have tried to contact turgotZ via this forum, but without success. Unfortunately i do not have his eMail adress anymore. :notsure:


BTW, have already you tried this GalCiv(& more) forum?

http://www.diplomats-empire.com/forum/portal.php


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I'll check it out! Thanks for the tip.

It sounds like there may be a problem with tag 35 being missing for some ships sets (minor race files). I determine this on the weekend, time permitting.

that is not entirely true, the program does not have full support for 16bit or 32bit i forget which. I created most of my ships with Mutil 3.3.3 which is why it will crash/distort MDL SPRITE Editor 1.06

here is a link to the last revision i did of the star trek ships. you have 7 days to collect your loot
http://s45.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=30RF177QYU7BJ3QQFAJZZ959C9

Do anything you wish with what i have made....

Thanks for popping in TurgotZ

What I said was true regarding the existing ship game files (unless I over-looked one); true as 16 bit; true so far as the Sprite Editor will state if a file is unacceptable if attempted to be loaded as 32 bit. Perhaps it doesn't always give the error report, in which case, my "Bust," and I appologize.

Intersting Service. I may need to try that as well. I certainly have no way to place such large files on-line. My FTP is nearly full as it is.

As far what you've done... I don't know where you found the time! It is likely I won't be able to finish whatever needs to be done (?). Beautiful work! Whatever you have completed will remain as is (minor fixing of any "Woops"). Anything I may (MAY) do will be as an entirely seperate MDL file. I had some reservation about even going near this Star Trek Mod due to the size and work you (and associates?) have done, not without hearing from you and any associates. It all seems too recent to me, and I thought it was still on-going (?).

The Multi 3.3... the Star Dock thing? If so, that's not too surprising. I figured you had to have been using something other that Dark Rain's 16 Bit Sprite Tools (which is why I was wondering what tools you had been using). I never had a need to investigate Multi Tool utility, since Dark Rain's tool seemed sufficient. I take it you didn't like it then? Or was the 32 bit issue pretty important to your gfx design preferences?

Is there any reason you didn't put your cretions in the Libray here as a seperate ship gfx package so people could mix-n-match gfx for thier own star dot SHIP file ideas? Too big?

Lastly, this stuff appears to be your on-going effort, and you are still around! Perhaps you have "retired" from it (don't know)? I would simply prefer to send whatever I do to you or the others helping make the Star Trek Mod. I do not like walking on people toes (as the expresion goes) if thier work and efforts are not finshed and are sensitive to others helping. I could fix what might need fixing (?), maybe even do a ship set or two.... I certainly don't see myself having time to do all the ships of an entire race (if missing?), especially if from "scrath."

I was thinking of "smaller" requests, BTW.... my time is very limited, usually to weekends if I haven't other priorities.

Lastly, I feel uncomfortable with moving ahead on any efforts if the other people whom you were doing the Star Trek MDLs for don't wish it. Do you know who they are? I would just as soon send any new MDLs to them, so that they can keep the Star Trek Mod under one "Roof" for proper package release, or to you for proper package release. Somebody would still need to make the various star dot SHIP files if they are all not made (?). Your call.

Or maybe Dark Rain's tool wasn't available at this time, or TurgotZ was already confortable with Mutil.

Looking at Multi again... oh... and seeing why I liked Dark Rain's utility better.... too bad it doesn't do 32 bit.

Got the Star Trek MDLs and took a look.

The race models MDL is accessable by the Dark Rain's utility. Fixing issue here (if there are any) is no problem.

The TNGship MDL data isn't accessable by Dark Rain's utility.

At this point, I'm not sure I want to commit the time to figuring out Multi. Being productive and efficient while using Multi looks to be poor as opposed to the other Utility. I suppose one gets faster with some practice. It certainly isn't too obvious how to use it. I'd have to spend a lot of time reading the readme file and tinkering around. I'm ruling all that out at the moment. It would eat too much of my spare time this weekend.

The bottom line is that I won't be able to access much of the data in the MDLs that TurgotZ has created.

The best thing I could do is make ships for the Korx and Drath races if they don't exist. Do they exist? To do this, I would need a simple pcx, jpg, bmp (whatever) of the ships (top-down view, if possible) desired to be placed into the set. I could work all of the ships via Dark Rain's Sprite Utility as 16 bit... And what... about 20 kinds of ships per race? It'd take awhile.

I wouldn't be able to fix anything in the existing MDLs, unless I identify the actual file, delete it entirely, and rebuild from scratch using a screen shot as a base-line. If there were not many "invisable" ships, then this might be a workable solution.

Somebody who plays the Star Trek mod would need to tell me exactly what ships of which players are not displaying properly (or are invisable) in order for me to have a starting point; then I might be able to find the corresponding data in MDL while not openning it (since I can't), delete the data, and then rebuild as 16 bit. I personally don't see enough detail in most GC/AP ships that really merit a need for 32 bit; and I think any change to 16 bit will not result in a noticable difference (?). All I can do is try and see. But first I need a starting point. What ship type of what race is first?

Ya... I read re-read the thread about Multi.... seems there wasn't much utilites available back then? Even rotation was a problem of a sort (in terms of easy and effective rapid production). Don't truely know. To an out-sider like me, it looks like it was a nightmare trying to be productive in making game ships rapidly with effective tools. No doubt designers got very used to the tools they had, and were pretty quick. But for fans? It looks to be a very slow process using some of the earlier tools compared the what Dark Rain has made available (thankfully).




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