Are there really two Americas?

from JoeUser Forums
John Edwards' speech about "Two Americas" was a centerpiece of his presidential campaign. While the message is not as prominent in the Kerry-Edwards ticket, Kerry has embraced it.

The crux of the Two Americas message is that one America is working hard and struggling to pay bills, and the other America is awash in money and not contributing enough to society.

Is this an accurate portrayal of America today? Intuitively, Edwards' message makes sense. Health care costs are rising. College costs are rising. Insurance costs are rising. Surely something must be wrong.

The middle class certainly is facing problems in America. But that is only one of Edwards' Americas. The problems, according to Edwards, are the result of the harmful actions or inactions of the other America, the rich. The rich are sitting by the pool and soaking up tax breaks while the working Americans are out in the cold. Is that true? Are the problems in America the result of the rich?

Perhaps the best anecdotal counter to the slothful characterization of rich America would be John Edwards. Edwards has talked about how he went from being the son of a mill worker to being an attorney who stood up for the little guy. Edwards prides himself as being a champion of ordinary people against big companies, and he proclaims that his work made society better. Now, I don't neccessarily agree with all of the positions Edwards took as a lawyer. But I do believe that Edwards worked hard. I'm sure he worked long hours and traveled a great deal during his career as an attorney. John Edwards is very wealthy today, worth tens of millions of dollars. He didn't get that money stting by a pool phoning his stock broker. He got it because he worked as an attorney.

John Edwards wants to raise capital gains and dividend taxes on the rich. I can't understand why this makes sense. Investment creates jobs. That's right, investment creates jobs. Taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol are sometimes called "sin taxes" because they are partly designed to discourage people using those products. Why should we have a "sin tax" on investment? Surely job creation is not a sin!

So no, I don't think are two Americas. I think there is one America, and we all have to work together to solve our problems regardless of our net worth.

Two Americas speech at Iowa
democrat
23,388 views 45 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I could buy that there are two Americas, but not the two that Edwards preaches.

There is one where Americans are hard workers, accept responsibility, and earn their rewards.

And there is one where Americans are slack-asses, blame everyone but themselves, and demand that society pay them what they think they deserve.
Reply #2 from PolMach Forums Top
I think multi-millianares have enough money to have they're taxes raises, about 50+%.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think multi-millianares have enough money to have they're taxes raises, about 50+%


I certainly think Edwards deserves this since his years as a lawyer contributed significantly to raising the cost of health care in America.
Reply #4 from PolMach Forums Top
I could buy that there are two Americas, but not the two that Edwards preaches.

There is one where Americans are hard workers, accept responsibility, and earn their rewards.

And there is one where Americans are slack-asses, blame everyone but themselves, and demand that society pay them what they think they deserve.


I am so tired of this arguement. Rich people aren't more hard working, they're just lucky that they're parents are rich. Look at GWB, he got a free ride to Governor off his father, which, alongside his brother and Catherine Harris, brought him to President. While kids in the ghetto have no chance going in. Do you know 1 in 20 black males die from murder? Thats pretty pathetic. And the millionares can't spare a dime.
Reply #5 from PolMach Forums Top
I certainly think Edwards deserves this since his years as a lawyer contributed significantly to raising the cost of health care in America.


I don't really care, as long as the taxes are getting raised, instead of lowered.
Reply #6 from PolMach Forums Top
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Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am so tired of this arguement. Rich people aren't more hard working


I never said rich people are the hard working ones. I believe there are rich and poor in both categories.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Do you know 1 in 20 black males die from murder? Thats pretty pathetic. And the millionares can't spare a dime.


The millionares ARE sparing dimes... billions of them.

Is it the millionares that are murdering these 1 in 20 black males? Maybe you should address the cause of those murders isntead of asking for the rich to pay blood money.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
I just don't like people that try to pull down rich people. Not all rich people get rich by "old money". How about Bill Gates? He started poor and look at him. He's the richest person now. Fair tax for everyone is a better solution.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bill Gates did not "start poor". He's the son of a very wealthy attorney. He attended Harvard University.

From the Microsoft iste ...

"Their father, William H. Gates II, is a Seattle attorney. Their late mother, Mary Gates, was a schoolteacher, University of Washington regent, and chairwoman of United Way International. "
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bill Gates did not "start poor". He's the son of a very wealthy attorney. He attended Harvard University.


This doesn't change the fact that many people have pulled themselves up from humble beginnings.
Reply #12 from PolMach Forums Top
Donald Trump wasn't rich, and I'm sure there's more. But it doesn't change the fact that the odds are if you grow up rich you'll be rich and if you grow up poor, you'll be poor. It's not too easy to overcome poverty.
Reply #13 from PolMach Forums Top
The difference is that in america, you have the opportunity to change your status.


I'd like to see you escape poverty.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'd like to see you escape poverty.


That statement just shows your ignorance of the people on JU. Many of the people here, myself included, have been homeless and poor, and we managed to "escape." Little Whip has overcome more adversity than anyone I know.
Reply #16 from PolMach Forums Top
Fine, but did you grow up with poverty throughout your whole entire life?
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Fine, but did you grow up with poverty throughout your whole entire life?


So if someone works hard and gets ahead, they're suddenly a hypocrite? I don't buy that.

I have been below the poverty level most of my life...by CHOICE, as I choose to place my aspirations as a writer above the financial gains that may be found on a career path. I have met both rich and poor, and can tell you...one's pocketbook is by no means a gauge of their character.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm not Brad Wardell

Reply #19 from PolMach Forums Top
The "Two Americas" idea here is, I think, being very misinterpreted. The idea is not that the wealthy are lazy or boorish and just don't care. The idea is that there is a growing divide in this country between the haves and have nots, that the gap between the upper and lower strata of American society is growing larger. The idea is not that one is bad and the other is good, the idea is that the gulf between them is bad, and that we must bridge it and bring the two back together by lifing the bottom up. This is an idea that I happen to agree with. No matter what your opinion of the poor is, we have to take some numbers into account. There are 35 million people in this country who are poor. 14 million of them are under the age of 18. Children are more likely than any other age group to be poor. 18.5 percent of the people living in inner cities in America subsist on less than $16,500 a year for a family of four. There are times when someone manages to pull themselves up, and I salute these people. It's an incredible feat to pull one's self up from true poverty. John Edwards got very lucky. He wasn't truly poor growing up, his dad was a manager at the mill that is so often talked about. He was lucky enough to be born in a state with excellent public Universities. The fact is, however, that the vast majority of that 35 million will never get a chance to rise above their birth. For some of them, it will be, at least in part, for lack of effort. But for many, and I believe most, the problem lies in the inescapable cyclical nature of the poverty that they are stricken by. They are stuck working minimum wage jobs that can barely provide enough to support themselves, much less their families. They cannot advance above this because to move up requires more education, a more impressive resume, which they simply cannot afford to obtain. They can't take off work to go to school, they'd lose their jobs and their only means of sustaining themselves. Many of them could quite possibly never even be admitted to a college or university even if they did have the time and money because the public schools they attended left them ill prepared for dealing with the rigors of higher education. On top of this add the fact that many of the impoverished are struggling with serious health issues because, for example, they cannot afford well balanced meals and end up eating fast food all the time, leading to diabetes, obeisity, heart problems, and so forth. It is a cycle that is terribly difficult to break out of.

Not only this, but they must combat issues such as gang activity and drug use. The number one cause of death for black males under 35 is homocide.
Maybe you should address the cause of those murders isntead of asking for the rich to pay blood money.
To address the cause of those murders, CS Guy, is to address the cause of poverty, and is exactly what Edwards is getting at. Why, we must ask, is violent crime so much more common among those in the lower income brackets? It's not that these are somehow lesser people, that they are just violent or crude by nature. It is because of the environment they have been brought up in. Why is there a booming illegal drug market in the inner city, for example? Because selling drugs puts a hell of a lot more bacon on the table than selling twinkies. That's the American spirit for you right there, entrepreneurialship.

At any rate, that is what I think Edwards is talking about when he talks about the Two Americas. He's talking about one America, where people work hard and go to work every day, and then come home and relax by the fire with their families in their nice neighborhoods. He's talking about the other America, where people work in Wal-Mart or Wendy's and go from paycheck to paycheck, hoping they can get in enough hours to pay the rent. He's not saying that either is the morally superior or that one is somehow better than the other, that one is the product of laziness and sloth and the other is ever hard working and struggling to stand up despite the efforts of "the man." He is simply saying what I think is an utterly American idea --- Let two Americas become one. Let us give those who live at the bottom the lift they need to join us at the top. Let us ease the worry of paying the rent or the bills before the second notice comes in. Let us come together as one America, for that is what we all deserve, and have spend the past two centuries toiling for.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well my mistake. But Bill Gates still started from pretty much nothing.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

Donald Trump wasn't rich


who's been tellin you lies about the donald?  his father was a wealthy contractor

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
LW kills yet another thread?
gah, i hate when that happens


Maybe there is just nothing else to say after you have contributed.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Actually there used to be THREE americas, but the rich have pretty much decimated a big chunk of the middle class. So how about 2.3 americas?

Brian
AKA:thatoneguyinslc
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

Rich people aren't more hard working, they're just lucky that they're parents are rich. Look at GWB, he got a free ride to Governor off his father, which, alongside his brother and Catherine Harris, brought him to President. While kids in the ghetto have no chance going in. Do you know 1 in 20 black males die from murder? Thats pretty pathetic. And the millionares can't spare a dime.

Rich people are lucky? Explain my luck then. I grew up poor. My parents are barely middle class today and both single (i.e. divorced). But I'm now one of "the rich".  I've averaged working around 60 hours per week for the past decade.

Who the hell are you to tell me how much I should earn? What have YOU contributed? I pay six figures in taxes each year. That's not enough? Every dime taken away from me is a dime taken away from hiring more people and contributing to the economy in other, far more efficient ways, than the government can.

You need to get a clue.

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

Jul89:

Read MY working history: http://draginol.joeuser.com/articlecomments.asp?AID=20053&s=1

I made my first bits of money taking out the trash for welfare mothers.

The only reason why you are able to post your ilinformed rantings is because I busted my ass to make something of myself. 

My mom could have gotten welfare if she'd wanted to. She actually made LESS working full time than she would have received via welfare. But she had honor and was willing to sacrifice some to live an honest life. And I learned a lot from her about the meaning of hard work, sacrifice, and careful planning.