Does the AI colonize class <15 planets? Should it?

from Stardock Forums
Admittedly I'm still pretty new to the game, but I'm very deep into an all-two notches above normal AI game and have yet to see the AI do so.

It's a medium map, and all the 15+ planets have been picked up for a long time now. Compared to my other games there are a lot of crap planets in this galaxy but there are a handful of 13 and 14 planets out there. I've seen two different examples of where I should think the AI should grab some of these but they haven't:

- 2 of the 5 major races got the short straw... stuck in corners isolated from the main mass of stars near the middle of the map. They've squatted on their homeplanets and been stuck there the entire game. Each have had access to a few 14 planets but they're content to stay home.

- The other 3 and I have been in vicious competition... looking at the graphs we've been pretty much equal in all areas for much of the game (and a really great one it's been too!). As noted we've all grabbed the 15+ planets but they don't seem to want the 13s and 14s. Worst case... the Torians started off in a sector with several stars containing 3 15+ planets. They occupied them early. What they hadn't moved in on are *3* class 14 planets in 2 unclaimed stars. The Torians and I have been bitter rivals the entire game, with seemingly every ship, starbase, and planet in contention. Why not grab those planets?

Early on such planets are a major pain, but later you can easily survive the penalties until the Soil Enrichment / Habitat Centers complete and then you've got a perfectly fine planet. If nothing else it's producing *something* for your empire.
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I've noticed that there's a huge productivity difference between planets. A 13 planet (that becomes a 15 through soil and enrichement and a habitat center) really doesn't do that much for your empire. It might even give you a negative impact, as the planetary improvements cost more to maintain than the revenue that the planet generates.

A single planet in the upper 20s is better than a whole bunch of mid-teens planets.

Of course I've only won a single game at Normal level, so maybe I don't know everything...
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Relatively speaking yes, improved class 15 planets will never be as good as natural 15s that get bumped to 17s or so... but they can be very useful. Add in a starbase with some productivity modules, a few of the basic planetary improvements and you're good to go.

Perhaps going out of your way to improve some lonely 13-14 in an unclaimed star in an uncontested sector is a bit much, but why not backfill your existing sectors and stars once the 15s are taken?
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
I noticed that too, i used to colonize every planet I could before I saw the AI not doing the same. Then I played without colony-whoring and I had way more production :/ Plus the population growth on those crappy planets is god awful. I actually had planets with like 100 million people and it just wouldnt go up :(
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I colonize class 13/14 planets all the time. There is a downside however: Morale. Especially mid game to near the end, morale is 1% on these planets when first claimed. I've had such planets join up with the I-League just a few turns after founding because of it. I've found if you are in such a situation, you'd need to rush built social projects to get it up to a 15 and then morale gets in line with your empire. So if you don't have the cash to rush build those and you are in the low morale issue with <15 class planets, you could be giving free systems to another Civ.

My guess is that perhaps the AI doesn't look at rush building improvments to get it to a 15 as a viable strategy yet. Or it may, but it doesn't have the cash to do so. Also could be that if you have a PQ ability bonus those planets are actually lower then 13 but with your bonus is makes them seem to be 13 or 14. AI would probably never attempt a level 12 planet or less.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
I think Daveman is correct that it doesn't hurt to backfill planets in sectors you already own. You should only build soil enhancement, habitat center, then the bank and the economic exchange, and maybe an entertainment center if morale is too low. Don't build any more stuff on these crappy planets.

Don't land too many colonists on these planets. If you land a billion people on a class 12 world, they will be very unhappy! Start very small.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Are you certain the AI doesn't already do this? I was playing a game, and I watched the AI take over an orange system with a class 13 or 14 planet, and it was upgraded by them immediately. Unless I was losing my mind (in my sleep deprivated state, this is possible!), I did see this happen in a game.

fleabitfox
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
during the game there is an event that renders one inhabitible system habitable and there is a vote in UP to see who gets it.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I usually try to colonize the 13+ planets, but only because I always pick planet quality as the ability of my race. It really helps on those planets, and boosts the 15+ planets. :D

Having said that however, I only go for these mid game.
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Is this true if you choose the "+15% planet quality" choice? I've noticed that class 14 planets are immediately class 15 or 16 as soon as I colonize them. Will they be of the lower production and morale variety as well? I haven't actually played through the game yet and I'm still learning the interface. Sticking with Tiny Galaxies for now.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
I used to colonize planets based on the picture :/ I dont see the point of having so many levels if anything below 15 is useless :/ We can call those 0s and move on starting with 1
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
I've played a few games with the +15% PQ bonus in Large and larger Galaxies set to the minimum number of inhabitable planets, and in those conditions, the Class 12-14 planets are the key to winning the game. With this in mind, I do have a few things to add:

If you're colonizing a planet that will be less than a Class 15 for more than one turn, land fewer than 100M colonists. That seems to be the first breaking point. Anything over that on a low-class planet, and morale tanks.

On any planet below Class 15, Soil Enrichment/Habitat Improvement/Terraforming should be the very first things you build. Getting up to a Class 15 is more of a benefit than just about any other social project, including banking, manufacturing center, etc. I'm even suspecting that this may be true on the larger planets, except for the manufacturing center.

Don't bother building morale buildings on low-PQ planets unless you're in trouble. They generally don't pay for themselves, unlike the larger planets where higher morale converts into a higher population, which means a higher tax base.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
But the picture looks so inviting, why are my people not happy? :(
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Is there any way to make a colony ship with less than 100 million colonists, besides building it at a planet with less than 200 million inhabitants? It wouldn't surprise me if I'm missing something, but I always have half the planet go (and annoying that is if I'm colonizing even a 15, let alone a 14 or 13).
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
You should turn off the autolaunch feature on the planet which you are building the colony ship or transport on. Otherwise, it will automatically launch the ship with half of the star system's population.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
I normally split the difference and colonize the 13/14's when it makes strategic sense to do so. Sometimes you need a boost in your range so you can make the jump to the next star cluster, sometimes you want to bring more Influence to bear on an opposing civ, you get the picture.

I'll have to do some experimentation to see if these planets are worth colonizing in their own right, and if so what level of infrastructure is appropriate. How much return you get for your investment will determine whether the 13/14's are worth colonizing early, mid, late, or only in strategically necessary situations.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Unless I'm using the green thumb bonus, I don't use 14's, let alone 13's. It isn't worth it. They just sap your economy, and even when fully developed with the baseline social improvements, they contribute virtually nothing.


STAY AWAY


STAY FAR AWAY!
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
Personally I have newer seen the A.I colonize a planet lower than class 15. This seems to be an absolute rule the A.I is following - NEWER colonize planets below class 15, ever!

Unfortunately this seems to mean that there are always 1 or 2 A.I players that, starting in poor locations, eg. on the edge of the map who simple just CANNOT expand unless they colonize that class 14 planet first
in order to reach that cluster of stars. And IMHO class 14 is really not that bad.
Still they remain on their starting starsystem forever, until killed.

The fault lies also in the random map-generator witch seems to take great pleasure in ALWAYS putting some of
the A.I players in a compleatly isolated areas from start.

If all other stars are reasonable close to one another, with the exeption of one single star compleatly out of reach - it is almost absolutely certain that it is the starting location of some unfortunate A.I player.
Of course you, as the human, can be the target of "starting the game in the middle of nowhere"
It's just that when it happens, you restart. The A.I player cannot request for restart =(


But It is frustrating not to know for sure - you may play the game for hours until you realize those drengins has been up in their own isolated world doing nothing for the entire game.

Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
I think Elkku is onto something - I would use an option that effectively ensured none of the computer players got a horrible start - really wrecks my game to get several hours in before I discover that some of the baddies never had a chance, and hence the diificulty level I set is not the difficulty level I got...

~SDC~
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
The AI will rarely pick up a class 14 planet, but only if it has no choice. It will prefer invasion of existing colonies (regardless of their class) over a new class 14 colony.

~SDC~
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Yes, I've noticed that on even a huge sized map that one of the teams (invariably the Arceans in my games for some reason) will start in some backwater corner totally out of range of anything other than a few planets. I'll never make contact with them; I just get the message that they are surrendering to another AI team.
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
I haven't really noticed this sort of behavior in the Windows version, but in the old OS/2 version, the AI would colonize almost _any_ planet it could find, as long as it wasn't a gas giant, if there weren't any 15+ class planets available. This behavior was especially notable, of course, once the big colonization rush was over and all the really good planets were taken up.
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
I routinely colonize Class 12's and 13's, and 14's are considered "prizes" because they're great and the AI won't go for them. I routinely have the +10% PQ bonus (not the full 15%); the extra plents may not contribute to my income, but they pump out extra constructors, provide additional voting and cultural influence, and provide additional range to my ships. And they hardly ever get invaded by anyone.

Do they drain my income? Sure... But since I spend most of the game with my Spending slider maxed out (using Trade Goods to get the extra income), even Class 12 production is "more" than what I would have without it. Heck, in my current game, an "upgraded" Class 12 just buils the VR modules trade good, simply because my other worlds were busy with more important projects!