"friday five" ... YOU have the answers for everything !

Reply #26 July 31, 2004 4:32 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Oh dear, i dont want this to turn into another abortion/anti abortion thread, its plain to see we all feel pretty passionately about this

it's ok, sabrina, my lovely. we are all allowed to speak as freely as we like in friday five. that's why i like it so much. i feel honoured that so many people share their private thoughts with me, and as soon as i started friday five, i promised myself that i would never malign anybody for speaking their own truth, provided they did so in a reasonable and non-aggressive way.

amazingly enough, despite all the issues we have discussed, i am yet to have been insulted or offended by anyone, regardless of my personal views on the issue/s at hand. i'd say that's a credit to everyone who has ever commented.

steps down from her soapbox and hopes she hasnt pissed anyone off too terribly~

nah. well, not me anyway. anybody pissed off ? show of hands ?

THANKYOU. everyone that answered. as soon as i can massage some life back into my fingers, i'll answer it myself

grateful mig XX

Reply #27 July 31, 2004 5:16 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

1/ abortion should remain a womans' right

True: in cases of rape, yes; in cases where it can be PROVED that the child's life would not be worth living; in cases where it can be PROVED that the birth would put the mothers life at risk. In all other cases, not including other valid reasons my myopic vision is not privy to, FALSE. I agree, in principle, with Sabrina on this one, but not in extent.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances

Seeing as these answers can be an outlet for idealism and that they are merely answers and not policies of national or global importance - TRUE. You can use self-defence as an out-clause, but if no country went to war to invade another this would be a moot point. But self-defence is a circumstance where war is right, there can be no moral judgment of self-preservation, you cannot expect the victims of genocide to turn the other cheek, or others to commit the sin of neutrality in the face of evil. But that is not the question - is war justifiable - yes. is it right - no. The murder of another human being, especially of those that have committed no personal evil against you or family is wrong, to kill those that must kill or be killed is as wrong as being killed in the act of preservation of home or life. War is an absolute evil. Death when there is no need for death is an absolute evil. War can SOMETIMES be justified, but it can NEVER be right.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals

Prison is the best place to prevent career criminals from committing crimes within the wider community. It is not the best place for rehabilitation. So, i would have to say FALSE. The education of criminals in criminality and dependence on institutions is hardly what i would call rehabilitation.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry

TRUE. Unequivocally. This needs no argument or justification through reason. Marriage is an arbitrary ritual that confirms and makes public love, as well as allowing the couple to be seen, in certain circumstances, as a single unit rather than two individuals. To legally protect bigotry and prejudice is abhorrent and regressive. It harms NOBODY to allow single sex marriage and union.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime

FALSE. I think it would be a mistake to see poor parenting as a cause rather than a symptom. It would obscure the influence of poverty, peer groups, undereducation (of both the parents and the child), the plight of third world children who have no choice but to become criminals, it being either a criminal career or death, etc.

Good questions Mig and it's nice to see everyone being elaborative, even though i think i might have driven this concept to its extreme, sorry about that

Marco XX

Reply #28 July 31, 2004 5:49 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

True: in cases of rape, yes; in cases where it can be PROVED that the child's life would not be worth living; in cases where it can be PROVED that the birth would put the mothers life at risk. In all other cases, not including other valid reasons my myopic vision is not privy to, FALSE. I agree, in principle, with Sabrina on this one, but not in extent.

marco, i can't believe we never discussed this !.. i had no clue what your views were on this. now i know. now i know !

is war justifiable - yes. is it right - no. The murder of another human being, especially of those that have committed no personal evil against you or family is wrong, to kill those that must kill or be killed is as wrong as being killed in the act of preservation of home or life. War is an absolute evil. Death when there is no need for death is an absolute evil. War can SOMETIMES be justified, but it can NEVER be right.

funnily enough, despite a mix of "true" and "false" answers on this one, nobody agreed with war, but we all found it a sad necessity

Prison is the best place to prevent career criminals from committing crimes within the wider community. It is not the best place for rehabilitation. So, i would have to say FALSE. The education of criminals in criminality and dependence on institutions is hardly what i would call rehabilitation.

this is a pretty neat summation of the answers so far, marco. (where were you when i was trying to write that mammoth comment ?

)

TRUE. Unequivocally

yep

FALSE. I think it would be a mistake to see poor parenting as a cause rather than a symptom. It would obscure the influence of poverty, peer groups, undereducation (of both the parents and the child), the plight of third world children who have no choice but to become criminals, it being either a criminal career or death, etc.

true, although we seem to have limited ourselves to "our" concept of poor parenting, your points are (as always) very valid (just more global than the issue seemed to have turned out).

thanks marco

croaky mig XXX

Reply #29 August 1, 2004 12:49 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

but we all found it a sad necessity

I have a problem with that word - "necessity". In my mind "necessity" is a concept that is inextricably intangled with the laws of nature. The sun rising - that's a necessity, it will happen outside and byond our existential decisions. Animals need to feed and so will need to excercise cruelty, but cruelty is not born of their need to feed, this necessity, but our interpretation of their actions. War is an evil that contains no necessity, its cause is always a decision, and remember, self-defence is not a cause of war. War only ever has sufficient conditions, never necessary ones.

Marco XX

Reply #30 August 1, 2004 7:42 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

I am going to place my answers to the questions at hand, you dont agree with them, I seriously dont give a shit, I have my answers for my own reason as do we all

(besides Im not here enough anymore to actually retort so whatever)

1/ abortion should remain a womans' right
True. Marco stated it clearly and preceptively, and I have known both cases that he has stated. No elaboration on this at all.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances
True. Shit happens we dont like it, war happens we dont like it, it wasnt right it aint fair yadda yadda blah blah fucking blah, you get the point.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals
False. If they are career its looks like they arent going to make a career change now does it.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry
True. Im not gonna say you cant marry your husband/ wife just cause I feel like it, and I dont expect you to do the same.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime
True. This is an exept from Chris Rock's Rock This! book.
page44 "Spare the ass, spoil the child"

"People need to beat thier kids. But these days parents are against hitting thier children. Its the nineties and your not supposed to do that. In one way they're right: You shouldnt smack a kid in the head or the face.
But the ass was made for whupping. Gotta do it. Every kid need four key ass-whippings in life, and every parent has to do their best to hand them out. They are the Stealing, Lying, Cheating, and Disrespecting ass-whippings.
Every grown-up who doesnt know how to act missed the key ass-whippings. If you cant drill it into a kid's head, you drill it into his butt. Please whip your kids ass before the government whips it for him. I feel sorry every time I see a distrought parent on the news whose kid gets accused of doing something terrible. The parents say, ' But my kid would never do that.' Yes, he would. But he wouldnt have if you'd have whipped his ass."

Thomas

Reply #31 August 1, 2004 7:56 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

War only ever has sufficient conditions, never necessary ones.

i will leave it at that, marco

I am going to place my answers to the questions at hand, you dont agree with them, I seriously dont give a shit, I have my answers for my own reason as do we all (besides Im not here enough anymore to actually retort so whatever)

it's ok, thomas. the reason i have this 'friday five' thing is that i wanted to guarantee people somewhere to express thier opinions without fear of being attacked. whether i agree or not, i still welcome your answers and i thank you for your participation

Marco stated it clearly and preceptively, and I have known both cases that he has stated. No elaboration on this at all.

i agree, thomas, that marco made some very good points. i hope that others read his answers

True. Shit happens we dont like it, war happens we dont like it, it wasnt right it aint fair yadda yadda blah blah fucking blah, you get the point

i do.

False. If they are career its looks like they arent going to make a career change now does it.

i really like the way you put this !

True. Im not gonna say you cant marry your husband/ wife just cause I feel like it, and I dont expect you to do the same.

exactly

I feel sorry every time I see a distrought parent on the news whose kid gets accused of doing something terrible. The parents say, ' But my kid would never do that.' Yes, he would. But he wouldnt have if you'd have whipped his ass."

you know thomas, i sometimes got a smack on the butt when i was naughty as a child. it never hurt much, but i hated it just the same. i know there can be a fine line between 'discipline' and 'abuse', but as far as i'm concerned, getting my butt smacked for being really naughty never harmed me at all. i think provided the parent doesn't take out their own frustrations by 'hitting' a child, and doesn't make a habit of smacking for no reason, it can work. but there can be a vast difference between a light maternal 'smack' for being cheeky and a full-on whipping (which i couldn't ever condone).

thanks thomas for your replies, it's nice to see you. if you get a moment, please tell jess that we are all thinking of her (and you).

vanessa/mig XX

Reply #32 August 2, 2004 4:56 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

1/ abortion should remain a womans' right

Absolutely, positively 100% YES. It's not something I would ever choose for myself, but I will firmly support the law of our land.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances

Morally, I'd say yes....but realistically.....I'm on the fence.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals

I don't know that there is a "solution".....but if we're talking prison vs. death penalty, then yes.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry

To this one, I'd have to say no.....there are some couples who should not have the right to marry, because of genetic issues...unless they are willing to be sterilized so as to be certain no children will be born to them.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime

No....blaming it on poor parenting takes all the responsibility from the juvenile...there are plenty of kids who are poorly parented who don't choose to commit crimes...and plenty of kids with seemingly good parenting who DO.....

Reply #33 August 2, 2004 7:06 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Absolutely, positively 100% YES. It's not something I would ever choose for myself, but I will firmly support the law of our land.

i agree, theresa. i have been in so much thought over this blog question this week, my responses have been everywhere. 9and hello !. glad you're here)

Morally, I'd say yes....but realistically.....I'm on the fence.

agreed. several people (marco is a good example) felt the same way as you (and i) do theresa on the moral element of this question.

I don't know that there is a "solution".....but if we're talking prison vs. death penalty, then yes.

agreed again. strangely enough, i didn't realise until a few days later that this was the question that the ju users were least able to relate to. we all struggled with it (with the exception of suspeckted who is currently studying in this area). what a sweet bunch we are

To this one, I'd have to say no.....there are some couples who should not have the right to marry, because of genetic issues...unless they are willing to be sterilized so as to be certain no children will be born to them.

oh, theresa i wish this comment of yours was at the beginning so others would see it, it's such a worthwhile point. we had all sort of agreed to exclude only 'too young' or 'taken too casually' as reasons couples should be prevented from marrying. but, as you say, marriage involves reproduction, which can combine incompatible or flawed genes. great point, thankyou so much

.

there are plenty of kids who are poorly parented who don't choose to commit crimes...and plenty of kids with seemingly good parenting who DO.....

i enjoyed these answers theresa. having no children, it interested me to see what others felt. it seems that most agreed that the youths themselves were at least partially responsible for their own behaviour, and although poor or neglectful parenting can contribute to juvenile crime, as you say, even good kids from stable homes can mature into adults that don't reflect their upbringing.

thanks again

mig XX

Reply #34 August 2, 2004 7:35 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

1/ abortion should remain a womans' right
False - There are at least 3 people involved in any pregnancy - I heard Elana's heart beating - watched it on the screen at 7weeks when we had a threatened miscarriage - I know she was alive. This is such a HUGE issue people die over this issue everyday. Look I didn't particularly enjoy being pregnant -(I don't deal with discomfort vey well - I complained alot this weekend when I had the flu) But it's a small price to pay for the joy Elana brings me and the joy a newborn could bring someone else - Dharma herself said she was adopted -- there are millions of stories about why its bad and why it should be allowed - the issue will never be resolved because people have such strong views about it through personal experience or religion or society

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime
It's really easy to blame the parents - and sometimes it's justified bur I don't think it can be in all situations. There's a program being trialed in WA I saw on the news this morning where parents sign some contract for their kids to be rehabiliated if they commit any crimes

Reply #35 August 2, 2004 10:06 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Look I didn't particularly enjoy being pregnant -(I don't deal with discomfort vey well - I complained alot this weekend when I had the flu) But it's a small price to pay for the joy Elana brings me and the joy a newborn could bring someone else - Dharma herself said she was adopted --

as i mentioned before trina, the issue of my wanting to adopt makes this a very difficult issue for me. as much as i respect the rights of women, i also respect the rights of life. any life. if more young women did go through with their pregnancies, there would be more children available to loving couples that would never have children of their own. yet, being a young woman, alone, pregnant, perhaps ostracised by family or shunned by the 'father', perhaps even a rape victim .... oh, the list goes on.

the issue will never be resolved because people have such strong views about it through personal experience or religion or society

i agree trina.

It's really easy to blame the parents - and sometimes it's justified bur I don't think it can be in all situations.

exactly, trina. as i said to theresa earlier, poor or neglectful parenting can contribute to juvenile crime, but so can a lot of things.

thanks for your answers. glad to hear you are feeling a little better

.

mig XX

Reply #36 October 16, 2004 8:04 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #37 October 16, 2004 8:39 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Ok, here are my opinions on these, for what they're worth.

1/ abortion should remain a womans' right
False. I believe that abortion is the intentional murder of a human being and no-one has the right to commit murder. as a "choice".

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances
False. While war is never a good thing and is always a tragedy, it is a fact of life in this world of insanity that we live in. As long as governements exist, and people remain basically as they are, sometimes war will be the only means of resolving differences between these governments. People never start wars, governments do. If one country commits a criminal act against another country and this can't be resolved through diplomatic channels, then war my be justifed in cases such as invasions.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals
I'll have to go with a True and a False on this one. I don't believe prison rehabilitates very many career criminals. It is, and should be, a punishment. Personally I believe that anyone who has been repeatedly imprisioned for habitual crimes should simply be kept there and away from the general society. A person makes a choice as to whether they are going to go out and knock someone in the back of the head with a brick so they can steal the 20 dollars they have. Some people simply belong locked up.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry
This has been such a touchy subject of late, with the media furiously fanning the flames. Personally, and this is my OPINION, I do not believe the governmant should legitimize an unnatural and perverse lifestyle. Again, this is MY opinion. I don't really care if two men or two women want to sleep together or live together or whatever, that's there private business. But I do see this as perverse and do not think it should be given a legitimate status.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime
True and False again. While poor parenting may be responsible for a lot of juvenile crime, poor parenting basically meaning lazy parenting and setting poor examples, at some point responsiblity has to be laid upon the person who commits the act. There is far too much time spent on trying to find "reasons" for people's actions and in some way removing the responsibilty from them. Sorry, I believe that a person should be held accountable for their actions regardless of the "reasons" behind them (bad childhood, too much television, whatever).