I don't see a Search function in the forums using Stardock Central.

~SDC~

The forums aren't perfect, but they are functional. I would much rather see time put into improving the game than the forums.

There's a search feature on the web version, but it's a bit strange. It only search for posts whose subjects *begin with* a particular string. So a search on "trade" will bring up "trade ideas" but not "question about trade."

myomer (I thought your name was mysnomer at first), I too would prefer that they spend their efforts on game enhancements. That's all the more reason they should just set up a well-tested system rather than trying to roll their own. We'd get all the features that we want and they could check it off their to-do list and work on game issues. To be honest, I don't understand why he characterizes other forum systems as preconceived and generic, while this forum offers an unprecedented level of customization. IMO, it couldn't be more the opposite. As code monkey mentioned, vBulletin is a great example. Not only are the looks/graphics of the pages completely customizable, but it has some sort of API and an active community of developers who contribute all sorts of extensions. I feel like I'm some sort of proponent for these things now, but I'm not. I couldn't care less about forum software. It's just a medium that should be transparent, i.e. I should never have to think about. Unfortunately, though these forums may be workable/functional as you say, it's gotten to the point where it's a painful doing even basic stuff. And it just seems unnecessary.

~SDC~

Frogboy really doesn't seem to want to install new software, if he likes what he's got, i think he's done more than enough work on our behalf that we can live with this choice of his.

Since he seemed to indicate that there would be the possiblity of more groups being added in the near to medium future, what new groups would people like to see? Good ones that i've heard suggested so far:

Bugs, Support (help on fixing problems on specific machines) Suggestions, and Metaverse. And of course keep the general forum. Is there anything else that's desperatly needed?

Frogboy: I do appreciate your second more explantory answer. I'm much more comfortable knowing that it's a personal decision on your part that i don't agree with, rather than an arbitrary ruling that i don't understand. Of course as was pointed out before, the response here is kind of your own fault You've done such an stellar job in just about every area that people have come to expect miracles of you

You don't fix what ain't broke. Basic rule of software. Brad doesn't see this as broke.

And when you consider the requirement to continue to support Star Dock Central, you may be able to see his point. Not everyone uses the web. The web is, I suspect, a nod towards the fact that some of their customers, for one reason or another, will not be using SDC when they want to chat and catch up on GalCiv news and ideas. These aren't really forums, they are really 'newsgroups' that Star Dock is putting into a forum like appearance.

From *our* point of view as customers using the web interface, it seems odd and needlessly under-developed in features. From *thier* point of view, it works well at what it is meant for. Allowing non-SDC people to interact with the SDC 'newsgroups'.

Perception and requirements...

This is pretty close to the worst forum software I've ever seen. If stardock likes it, so be it, but it's absolutely painful to follow threads. At the very least, it would be nice to be able to see all posts that I have made, so that I can go back to those threads and see if there have been any replies. (Is this possible already? because I certainly haven't been able to find it...)

EstyleS,

The forum software works best with Stardock Central, I think.

~SDC~

Maybe I missed something here, but just because Frogboy puts out a great game and support is excellent does not mean everything has to be considered great.

I personally do not like the fact you come here and you are faced with searching page 1 to page 114! Give me a break, just to have little icons at the bottom of the post! :notsure:
These could and can be viewed in the Metaverse if you want to see how cool they look under you name.

There is very little functionality to this forum. No Edit, No Quote, No Auto-Notification if someone replies, No Private Messaging, No overly useful Search Function, No relevant breakdown of Forum Groups (e.g. General, Bugs, Off Topic, Etc.), No Signatures, No Avatars, Etc.

Even the Buttons on the side of this Forum (Galactic Forum, GC Strategies, GC Mods) do not look like Forum buttons (Other then the Galactic Forum button obviously).
[SIDE NOTE Trivia: Only here have I seen GalCiv referred to as GC]
At least they could be "sub-buttons" under the Galactic Forum button not separate which makes them look less like forums and more like separate areas of the site.

This on a 56k is a very slow Forum (I live to far out for anything else).

Personally, I would rather lose the little Icons and gain a whole lot more in the end from another style of forum even if it was a “canned” one.

Toothy

What you are missing is that this isn't a forum. Its a magic trick to allow web users to use the galciv newsgroups that the Star Dock Central program uses. Since SDC came first, SD isn't going to trash out their established customer base to make a few 'whiny' people using the web interface happy. It would make their larger, SUBSCRIBER base, unhappy.

When you have 100 happy subscribing customers who like the system as is, and 1 or 2 whiny customers who want you to change everything so it breaks everything for your 100, you ignore the 1 or 2.

It's basic business.

Now, if you want to suggest that they split up their community, which would raise their costs, and have a real forum, which doesn't connect to their existing base, and which would double up their costs for equipment, support, etc, hey, go ahead. Just don't expect them to make one single change to how things are done. Not until there are more people whining about the web then using SDC.

Um, to all the people saying how this works best on SDC, why coudn't SDC just use the intergrated IE browser for a genuine web based software package? It doesn't pull you out of using SDC if you for some reason like using that as your forum/newsreader and it lets these forums enter the 21st century.

Star Pilot,

First, Pointing out the flaws in something is NOT whining it is basic business consumer relations.

Second, if you are correct (which I highly doubt), why would they have created this Forum in the first place since they had an established SDC Program already running? As a matter of fact there are 3 separate forums here, hmmm. No one was clamoring for them to create it but indeed they did and as such hopefully are willing to listen to their customers.

So, bottom line take your directed attacks elsewhere, as I clearly said in my post, "Personally."
If you do not like it voice your opinion, but leave the personal attacks out.

Toothy

Just so that we're on the same page:

We do listen to these complaints and suggestions. But right now, our resources are focused on the game itself.

There are great forums on Apolyton.net and on OrionSector.com (to name two) that you can discuss things there.

We will be adding more sections and we will be enhancing the forums over time.

But as I have tried to explain, several times, simply tossing out our forum system for some BBS style thing isn't an option. It would take a lot longer to customize those to fit our needs than it would take us to add the handful of features people are requesting.

As resources become available, I will assign them to enhance the forum.

Frogboy,

Enough said, Thank you very much.

Toothy

It is with distaste that I refute one of my old principles (agree in toto) with another previous post (or poster). But MadMaz couldn't have said better.

I continue to spend more time playing the game than commenting on this forum - that's a good thing. I'm also continously thrashing about trying to get completed gamew posted to the Metaverse. I've won four and only have credit for one. Whining now, bring on the cheese. But while I whine now, I am still frustrated. And yes I've logged my "number", and again, again.

Off to another game... who needs credits?

AA

Sorry all, off on a tangent. Perhaps there's some opportunities here for forum improvement. But then... game, improvements, forum... military, social, research...pick what and when... watch the morality and the senate vote.

Just a thought.

AA

StarPilot,

At first I thought your post had to be an attempt at sarcastic or satirical humor, but I just couldn't buy it. If it was supposed to be funny, I apologize, because it was almost too successful.

If not, you are seriously out of touch. You think people who use the web are some sort of irrational minority who are being whiny about having to use another program? That stardock is a "magic trick" to appease these crazies? Oh jesus, I think I'm going to pull something, that's so funny. I use stardock, and the reason I request these features has nothing to do with the program. My reasons and those that many others have cited are purely pragmatic. I think stardock's updating features are great (after you get past the initial difficulties.) But to suggest that people who use stardock would somhow be unhappy being forced to use the horrible world wide web, that it would totally "trash out their established customer base" is just plain absurd. Because of course they all loathe the web and would never use it! They'd rather give up the game entirely!

And by the way, I have to agree with you. A web forum would "double up their costs for equipment, support, etc." I've just crunched the numbers and can confirm your estimates. It will require at least 2 supercomputers and staff of 30 to monitor the board at all times. I'm glad we caught that in time.

I understand that Frogman has made up his mind and disagrees with most people out there. That's fine and I respect that. At this point, though, I think he's probably more bothered by you using the above to agree with him, rather than us disagreeing. I have to thank you man, your post was chortle-worthy and I have to now find some windex.


~SDC~

Anybody who wants a better forum should read Brad's treatsie on Generating Revenue on the Internet.

http://www.avault.com/developer/getarticle.asp?name=bwardell14

I have a feeling that new forum features will be reserved for drengin.net subscribers LOL

~SDC~

MadMaz,

I frankly don't care. Listen to what the Frogboy says, and has said in the past. I know it isn't easy to search out all his posts, but that's exactly what he has said in the past. Minus the whiny. He used the word belly-aching.

Are you a subscriber to Drengin.net? Or a one-time only purchase? Who do they have an ongoing commitment to? Stardock has chosen to be super fantastic, and give retail/one time only purchases a full one year of support and upgrades. They don't HAVE to.

They do have a serious commitment to their subscribers. And they are not going to abandon them. Now, if you have a great idea how they can maintain their commitment to the Drengin subscribers, and easily swap over to vBulletin or some other forum software at the same time, hey, go for it. But until you got all ticked off, you hadn't done that, had you?

Suggest workable solutions, something that will meet your wants and work for their existing customers, then you are being good customer. Demanding they fix something for you that currently meets their needs is just going to get round-filed, most likely. That is what happens. There is always *someone* that just isn't happy with a product, or a forum, and complains about it. Even when they read your mind and automatically answer your questions and thoughts, some humans will complain.

There are more bug reports then complaints about this forum's lack of edit ability. Fixing the Multiple Wonders/Trade issue definately has more CUSTOMERS asking that be addressed then 'replace the crummy forums!'.

Use SDC via Web? That is an interesting suggestion. Does the bulletin board and the newsgroups echo each other? Should they?

Remember, whining will just get you tuned out. Making some suggestions will at least register on the Star Dockians.

Man, you really are out of touch. I never questioned Stardock's commitment. In fact, I complimented them on their excellent customer service. All I was asking for was a response to a question that's been repeatedly asked, which Frogboy provided. As for offering suggestions, that's exactly what I did. I gave very specific suggestions on many of the things you incoherently mentioned, and the reasoning to back them up. Frankly, what I said wasn't all that notable. Many people have said similar things in the past, and I think the arguments we're making are fairly obvious, and is supported by the fact a preponderance of the sites agree that it's the most efficient and economical choice, and that people are happy with the results. Frogboy disagrees with the amount of effort it would take to get to where he wants to go, and that's fine. I may not agree, but I'm simply offerring my thoughts on the matter. But your criticism of what I said is almost completely non-sensical. Right now, I'm just frustrated I succumbed to the temptation and spent the last five minutes responding to it. Oh well.

~SDC~

Code Monkey: If you haven't used the forums via Stardock, it's hard to describe how they're optimized. It's only slightly different from a newsreader. You can tell which threads have new replies and how recently. I suggest that if people want to have an easier time reading these forums that they use Stardock Central.

~SDC~

Differences I've noticed:
- Loads faster
- All threads are in one really long lists which is still better than 113 pages on web version, though it doesn't seem like there are enough threads to constitute that many pages.
- Posts within a thread are displayed at I think 100 per page, while the web seems to default at 25.
- Going to a message that you've already visited but with new posts takes you to the first new post. I don't think the web version does this.
- You can sort threads by subject, original poster, last updated, and replies by clicking on the header. There's a single sort button on the web. I'm not sure how it works.
- Two "frames", so you don't have to go back and forth, which is especially annoying since the web version loads slow. Of course, you can always just "open in new window"...

Two advantages of the web version are that it has very simple subject search function and that you can at least bookmark threads you want to revisit.

~SDC~

Well I started my own forums at http://galciv.wcfamily.com and 30 minutes later I saw the post asking for Forum Suggestions.

I agree... this is very unfriendly and quite stupid

~SDC~