Draginol Draginol

Complaints about the free ice cream

Complaints about the free ice cream

Gratitude is a virtue...

http://denbeste.nu/

Never underestimate the ability of human beings to rationalize their behavior.  No matter what it is you give away freely, you will always end up with some people who will rationalize that they are customers and should be treated as such.  

The blogger who inspired me into starting my blog, Steven Den Beste, has decided to take an extended break from blogging.  In a nutshell, he’s fed up.  Fed up with people nitpicking his writing. People who make demands on him as if they were his customers with some right to make demands.  

He puts it thusly:

I've learned something interesting: if you give away ice cream, eventually a lot of people will complain about the flavors, and others will complain that you aren't also giving away syrup and whipped cream and nuts.

This isn’t confined just to those who write articles that they freely share on the Internet. Any sort of free product, good, or service will have people who feel they are entitled to make demands on the creator.  

 So let me share with you what I consider to be the 5 rules of free stuff:  

(1)   Unless money is being paid by you for the product, good or service being provided, you are not a customer. Get over it. You have no rights. Deal with it.  

(2)    Even if you paid money for the product, good, or service under discussion, your ability to make demands decreases depending on how many separations there are between you and the person you are making demands on.  If you paid the person directly, you have maximum leverage. But the more layers there between you and the person you’re talking to, the more diluted your leverage becomes. If I work at Microsoft and I’m posting on some forum, don’t bitch at me that I need to personally solve your Windows problems .  

(3)   If it’s free be gracious about it. Don’t complain that you should get more free stuff from the person. Anything you ask for is you asking a favor of the person providing the free thing. Polite requests = good. Demands = bad.

(4)   Don’t get mad or accuse the person/company of being “greedy” if some of their products/services aren’t free. Who is really the “greedy” one? The person who has given away things for free or the person who, having paid nothing, makes demands for more free stuff?  

(5)   If you think you can do something better then do it. Talk is cheap. Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn't have to deliver the goods.    

Let me give you some examples of free stuff that we regularly get people demanding customer level treatment:  

JoeUser.com
JoeUser is a free blog site I provide with the help of Stardock. The business case for the site is that it doesn’t cost much to provide and enables us to write articles and attract potential customers by its sheer popularity. Eventually it will hopefully pay for itself by having premium blogs. But that amount will still be fairly small.

Even though it is free, every day I get people who email me personally demanding all kinds of things. Not requests -- demands. Requests for help are fine. Demands are another thing. When people start making demands on how the site is run, they need to look up rule #1. If you’re not paying money for the site, you have no rights. You have no right to demand anything. But still, we see people who regularly make public demands or argue how unprofessional I or someone else is. Unprofessional? We’re not being paid to post there. We’re not paid to moderate. We go on there in our free time because we enjoy it. It really gets surreal when I occasionally get people who will create a blog on JoeUser that will call me all kinds of names. Needless to say, those blogs don't last long. Then come the screams of censorship and cries of first amendment protection. There is no first amendment rights on JoeUser. You want rights, then send me a check for $50,000. That's about the amount this site costs to have each year.

WinCustomize.com
This is another free site – to a point. Originally it was completely free. But the site costs hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to run so we eventually had to put a limit on how much stuff you could download before contributing something back. It had a negative affect on its Alexa ranking but we learned something valuable: We'd rather have fewer users and more customers.

Amazingly, we regularly have people who show moral outrage at the idea that they should have to pay. Somehow we are greedy because they want to use our bandwidth for free forever without giving anything back.

ObjectDock
This is one of the most notorious ones. ObjectDock is the world's most popular "dock" program. Docks are programs that let you put short-cuts and tasks and other things and typically "dock" them to an edge.  ObjectDock is freeware. But from day one, there's been a lot of people who have made demands on us to do this or that with it as if they were customers.  Not requests -- demands (requests are fine).

And when we came out with ObjectDock Plus (2 years later), which adds more features than what was in the free version, all hell broke loose.  All kinds of people started calling us "greedy" and worse. Lots of demands were made that its features should be in the free version. Or that we have no right to charge in the first place. Why? Because we made the free version available first (as if that makes sense).  There are other docks available and they're free too. But they're not updated anymore. Only ObjectDock receives regular updates. But do these people make the connection that maybe the reason the free version keeps getting updates is because of the existence of the Plus version? Not likely.

All of our freeware programs tend to get ignored when people describe our company as a whole.  Because we're a (gasp) for profit software company, we get the lunatic fringe anti-capitalistic people who think it's wrong that we sell software at all. Not that they are willing to write software and give it away. But they consider themselves just as much as customers as the people who pay for non-free products.

Like Steven, I get a lot of nit-picking about my blogs and articles and comments.  Usually from people who feel they know more than I do on a given subject.  Maybe they do but there's no way to know since they're not willing to take the time to demonstrate their knowledge. Most of the time when I write I simply don't have enough free time to qualify every statement to the nth degree. Sometimes I have to oversimplify something to get the point across.  I don't have patience for including things that are theoretically possible. I tend to stick with what is practically possible.

Still, some people will pass me links or names of books or articles that I "need to educate myself with" so that I can write a retraction or correction at a later date.  When I don't answer those emails, I'll occasionally get a "You've just lost a reader" as if they paid for the site.

The bottom line is that if you didn't pay for the product, good, or service that you're using you need to be conscious of that.  Don't delude yourself into thinking you're some sort of customer entitled to anything. Any request you make is asking for a favor. No matter what that request is, no matter how reasonable or justified you believe that request to be, you are asking for a favor.

In other words, don't complain about the free ice cream.

65,973 views 66 replies
Reply #26 Top
I have never understood why people complain when they get a service for free. They should just be glad folks like Brad do what they do, considering how a lot of blog sites now charge. JU lets people of all schools of thinking post whatever they like, and give them a forum for FREE.

Hell, Brad and i don't agree on much, but he allows me to post my thoughts and beliefs for the world to see unedited and unfiltered...Even if he doesn't like what i have to say....

So i say thanks for the ice cream...Now can i have another scoop?
Reply #27 Top
Ahhh... More self serving trip from froggy... But that's not important.... So do paying customers get evrything they want, and get to make demands? As I read it the thrust of your article is that non-paying users (since you don't believe they are a customer) are almost sub-human and they must walk a vey tight line... So if someone pays for OD do they get leverage? What if they have bought more than one product? And do you believe that philosphy should work everywhere i.e. if you go to a mechanic because they offer a free tire rotation should you get less service and attention then the guy who is paying ofr an oil change... Or better yet, what if you take your kid to the doctor and have an HMO plan (at $5 re-imbursement per visit you might as well be visiting the doc for free) and someone takes in their kid w/ private insurance ($70-$100 reimbursement for doc)? Is it o.k. for the doc o.k. to leave your kid to suffer while he sees heis private patients because heck by seeing your cheap HMO insured ass not only is he not making money but he is loosing it??? While I agree a MINORITY of users get bellicose regarding changes your attitude, "article", and general practices are pitiful... An no I didn't pay for OD... Because everytime a new version or product that comes out which makes me think it might be worth the $50.00 you guys put an opinion piece like this... Your software is good/intersting (certainly not a must have since it basically falls in the toy/entertainment category for me) but your company's attitude is deplorable...
Reply #28 Top
I also, couldn't agree more.

And I'm very glad you have written this article. It's something that many, many people need to read.
As a DJ for an internet-based radio station based in the world of an MMORPG, I know all about the pangs of dealing with people who assume your world revolves around their needs, involving a service you provide for them. None of our radio-based-organisation are paid for the hours they provide audio entertaintainment to the listening masses of said MMORPG(which can equal to almost 20 hours a week, standard). If anything, we pay fees to stay up and running.

Yet, still, we're faced with common criticism from time to time, as though our service has become a right.

I think one usual factor of "free stuff", whether it be a radio-service, a weekly blog, or even an art based website, is "Free" is highly taken for granted after a certain amount of exposure; this isn't always the case, but. It's as though it becomes so entwined in our lives(like the players of Anarchy Online and GridStream Productions), that we[for example] end up forgetting that it could "not be there" one day, essentially.. we form an 'option' into a need, then abuse that with griping or criticism when it doesn't necessarily satisfy us.
Reply #29 Top
I like to to this time to say thank you for writing this article, it is so true, I always tried to figure out what makes people think that what ever they can get for free, that they deserve to be treated like they actually paid for the free services, come on you freeloaders get a grip on reality. I commend and support you writing this article.
Reply #30 Top
I noticed this same pattern a few years back. The internet is making a whole bunch of spoiled people. Before the internet (and even at it's begining) shareware was the rule. It often came on discs with magazines or something and you could TRY software but you never got good stuff for free!

Now we have this whole Open Source software movement and users think free software means free as in free beer (no money) when actually it means free as in free speech (free use but not control, no money involved)

At the end of the day the internet is the real world. Nothing is truly free. Its just like at an ice cream shop. Sure you may get a free sample but if you don't like that than leave the store. If you like it buy it, then you can ask them to stock your favorite flavor more often. If you are not a customer you are not entitled to a voice.

Oh and about the greed thing, I have been accused of this same thing in my busiess as well. It makes me wich I could direct an electric show to the person who writes it. Unless you pay my bills, cloth and feed my kids don't lecture me a bout greed. I would like to see you are your parents go to work without pay!@!
Reply #31 Top
Now wait a minute. I agree that there are demands made for "free" stuff but in regards to ObjectDock I do have a complaint. Several years ago I subscribed to OD and the skins were free. Then we started getting charged for some skins. Since the creators of these skins were not stardock I really did not have a problem with this - actually, I purchased some because they were awesome. Then we started getting applications at an additional charge (like CursorXP). Again, this application was not Stardock so I really did not have a problem with this either - and I purchased that also. Now I'm getting charged for a Stardock application that (in my opinion) should be part of OD - and I do have an issue with that. And before the flames begin - I do understand that I am a customer.
Reply #32 Top
Amen to this. I am self employed and also have another small business that I do on the side and it amazes me the nerve of people who want you to give away the store while at the same time have no appreciation for all that you do for them. It can be very frustrating at times.
Reply #33 Top
I agree with most of this. It is very annoying when people expect more than is reasonable and this happens especially in technology where sometimes clients don't necessarily understand the difficulty or expense of implementing a particular request. Rude demands for software features are not right even if it is paid for.

However, I have a few general comments to make. These are not about Stardock's situation, but about this issue in general (like your article).

Firstly, it is not fair to mislead your clients (even non-paying ones) by making a product freely available and then charging for it having previously led clients to believe that it is free - nor is it right to deliberately cripple the free version to encourage purchases of the paid for version despite advertising the free version as a complete and usable product. Secondly, if you ask for feature requests and suggestions these are always useful even if the communication of them is apparently rude. Thirdly, it might be better to give the message that "Get over it. You have no rights. Deal with it." to the people who are responsible for the demands and ingratitude directly, rather than to people who enjoy reading your articles and are loyal readers, though the issue is definitely an interesting one to all readers.

Thank you for the interesting article.
Reply #34 Top
Reply By: Customer (or not?)(Anonymous User)....I subscribed to OD and the skins were free....Now I'm getting charged for a Stardock application that (in my opinion) should be part of OD....And before the flames begin - I do understand that I am a customer.
Lets see I also have ODNT and guess what.....Stardock never promised me free skins, but you got over that, so I'll move on to your second whine about Stardock charging you for an application that you feel should be part of ODNT, I'm guessing that it would be ObjectDock Plus, guess what....ObjectDock was never part of ODNT either and you have to buy OD+ by choice or maybe DesktopX Pro, a program for creating executables for distribution, which is not the same thing as customizing your desktop, probably a poor choice of software title on Stardock's part, but none the less, still shouldn't be part of ODNT. Stardock didn't run around and start mailing out bills to every ODNT subscriber last time I checked my mailbox, I didn't have one so what did they actually charge you for that you were getting for free before? Grow up...Anonymous User/Customer....a software customer has the reasonable expectation that the use of software they purchased will perform as expected and other rights as defined in the EULA.
Reply #35 Top

One thing with regards to Object Desktop - look at ODNT's evolution from 1999 till today. The price has always remained $49.95.  Consider how much new stuff has been added to during that time and the price remains the same.

 

Reply #36 Top
Draginol: I would like to chime in to say I agree with the majority here that I appreciate the services and features of JU. And I agree that since it is absolutely free, a user making spiteful complaints and demands is completely out of line. No one makes you use it. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Andrew:

Firstly, it is not fair to mislead your clients (even non-paying ones) by making a product freely available and then charging for it having previously led clients to believe that it is free


Not be a troll, but I studied this a bit in some e-commerce and marketing courses I took, and I will tell you that the debate in this area was never "is it fair?" or "is it ethical?", but rather "if we do this, will our customers pay or will they bail?". If the product is good, and the demand for it is solid, going from free to pay for an internet service will not be a problem. A few people may decide not to use the product, but they will be made up for with new customers.

Many internet services start out free in order to gain attention and support, but come to a point where they can bear their costs no longer and must have income (screenit.com is one example). I doubt many people in the JU community would hesitate to pay a reasonable fee for this service that they have enjoyed for so long and have incorporated into their lives (or are addicted to, he he).

I apologize for going off topic. Please forgive me.
Reply #37 Top

Let's look at this carefully:

Firstly, it is not fair to mislead your clients (even non-paying ones) by making a product freely available and then charging for it having previously led clients to believe that it is free - nor is it right to deliberately cripple the free version to encourage purchases of the paid for version despite advertising the free version as a complete and usable product. Secondly, if you ask for feature requests and suggestions these are always useful even if the communication of them is apparently rude. Thirdly, it might be better to give the message that "Get over it. You have no rights. Deal with it." to the people who are responsible for the demands and ingratitude directly, rather than to people who enjoy reading your articles and are loyal readers, though the issue is definitely an interesting one to all readers.

First off, what exactly is a "client"? Someone who uses something we give away is a user. Not a customer and not a client (depending on how you define client).

Secondly, what product did we give away and then turn around and start charging for it? ObjectDock? ObjectDock is still free and has actually gained new features.

Thirdly, feedback is sometimes useful and sometimes not useful. It is totally untrue to claim that they're always "useful". It depends on how much time you have available.  As someone who regularly gets 5 to 10 pages diatribes from users asking for features, I can tell you that sometimes the information in those emails are very valuable and other times they're pointless wastes of time.

Fourthly, name a product in which we later have gone back and "Crippled" to get people to purchase an enhanced version of it? Were any features in ObjectDock stripped out? No.  When JoeUser gets premium features, will the site be "Crippled" for existing users? No. The existence of a non-free version doesn't automatically make the existing free version "crippled".

Lastly, it is important, I think, that all people get this message.  One of the top bloggers on the net, Steve Den Beste, has hung up his hate for now because of the low as a percent but high in absolute terms number of people who make demands (NOT requests) and demand being treated as a customer rather than as someone who is thankful that the product/good/service has been made freely available.

Reply #38 Top
It never ceases to amaze me that people say, "Quit being so greedy and give me some more stuff" without so many words.

Reply #40 Top
First off, what exactly is a "client"? Someone who uses something we give away is a user. Not a customer and not a client (depending on how you define client).


By client I just mean someone who makes use of a service you provide. Maybe this should be user, but I think client is just as valid. The issue here is whether it can be regarded as a "business relationship" as it is for free, and I'm not sure about this. Despite the product being free, you do get something back - loyalty of customers, a way to encourage many people to purchase your products, feedback which can be used for paid-for products and a way of getting a community around your company, which is extremely beneficial. (And particularly for Stardock because you rely to some extent on people spending their time making skins, and one of the things that has made your products popular is the wide variety that is available.) What I actually mean by a client is someone who is using your product, whether it is free or not. (I don't know enough about business or eCommerce or whatever to know whether this is right. Sorry if it isn't.)

Secondly, what product did we give away and then turn around and start charging for it? ObjectDock? ObjectDock is still free and has actually gained new features.


I repeat that these comments are not about Stardock's situation, but about the issue in general. I think it's great that a company like Stardock which could so easily charge for ObjectDock is still keeping it free, like CursorXP (standard version). Stardock's business practices were excellent, particularly getting so much as part of ObjectDesktop, when I was a customer. (Unfortunately I can't afford it any more due to university being horrendously expensive.)

On the issue of customer/client/user feedback - many companies have to invest a lot of money and time in getting user feedback. It's inevitable that some may abuse this right, but even if communicated badly, they're still suggestions. If you get so many then surely you can afford to ignore diatribes from rude customers/clients/users? Feedback in good faith that is communicated politely and makes reasonable suggestions *is* useful.

Again, I didn't mean any of Stardock's products; given that you wrote the "five rules of free stuff" in general, I wanted to make this general comment. Misleading customers is always wrong, even if they are using a free product. If you will excuse the analogy, if you offered to help someone carry something, you wouldn't drop it half way and run off - even if you do something for free, you still have a responsibility as part of that to maintain the ethics of yourself or your company.

I completely agree with your point about people making demands, however. Some people always expect more. As with all things, though, in providing the service you're more likely to get people complaining than saying how good it is (and the complaints are more obvious usually), and I expect this is what happened with Steve Den Beste's blog.
Reply #41 Top
* Stands up and applauds Brad *

As someone who provides a free service over at MeTV, I deal with these people every day of the week and this article has inspired me to detail my long-standing frustrations in my own 'blog.
Reply #42 Top
~ You hit the nail on the head!!

~ I commend you on stating something I feel so strongly about. People are so quick to demand things pertaining to something they are getting for free. It disgusts me!!

Three cheers for Draginol!!!

Reply #43 Top
Couldn't agree more. It annoys me that people make demands on skin creators especially.

I've come to the conclusion that some people are just plain ignorant and lazy. Those people in my book soon become ignorant, lazy and ignored.
Reply #44 Top
I must admit this is the First article I've read on your site. An excellent article by the way! I don't pay for the goods and services I use out of some sort of feeling for the programmers or administrators of a site, I pay for software or a service because I use it! (Isn't that the way America is supposed to work?) And so I bought my Stardock software and I'm a paid member of Wincustomize and Stardock.
Reply #45 Top
To Helix II

That is cute... I do it all the time except I provide a service and not a product... And trust me I hear alot more moaning, bitching, crying then brad and the lot of you combined. Having, gotten that out of the way: you started giving rides (to follow up on your example) becuase you enjoy it. Hence your payment: enjoyment. Remember no one is putting a gun to your head to offer a free service. You think there is too much bitching and moaning go for a ride into the sunset by yourself... Or try charging and see how much more bitching and moaning you'll get now that the same guy has paid you. Furthermore, I allowed that yes there are the jackasses that are too much but the majority of users are not.... What brad and company does NOT do is release products for free for the enjoyment of it... They do it to lure customers.. Hence they get VERY pissed off and annoyed if their product does not make money... This is different from a programmer who releases something freeware out of pure enjoyment of coding.. For that programmer a kind word from some customers is enough to keep him going through the minority assholes. For brad and company a kind word is not worth shit if it does nto translate to dollar figueres...

The thrust of his diatribe (article, what article?) is that you didn't pay so f' off which is why in my OG post I asked how much money before the customer does not have to f'off anymore... It is really simple:

If you are doing something do it because it makes you happy (e.g. do it because you enjoy giving rides) and not to make other people happy because you'll always be dissapointed... Brad and co. are dissapointed because they release "free" software in hopes of generating sales (Bootskin/Bootskin plus, OD/OD+) and only for that reason... Heck someone should call steve jobs so he can come and school them re-garding stealing of IP...
Reply #46 Top
I have no complaints about free ice cream. Hell, if I don't like the flavor I wont eat it. And if anyone else don't like it oh F--king well.
You are doing us in pc land a favor by giving away free software, and I appreciate it. I admit sometimes I am a little disappointed with what I download, but I find there are more times I am satisfied with what I donwload. That which I dont like, I delete. And from time to time I make donations to sites.

Keep up the good work.
Reply #47 Top
completely agreeing with brad.

if i offer to give someone a ride in my car, they'd better not tell me what music to put on the radio. 'beggers can't be choosers'.

i get real tired of doing favors for people and having them criticize the favor or complain the whole time. if someone puts up a site or a program, and you use it, you are just a passanger. unless you are chiping in for gas don't expect the driver to put the additional effort into listening to you bitch. you don't have a contract, you don't have any rights, and making demands isn't going to get you anywhere. it's only gonna ruin your chances for future favors.
Reply #48 Top
While on one hand I'd have to agree, the stream of rude and ungrounded demands are deplorable and need to cease, I can't help but think that there's some truth to what's said by others, that when it comes to free vs. paid, things are getting a bit skewed. Products, say software, are paid for in order to perpetuate the entity which created them - be it a conglomerate or an individual. The self-perpetuating myth that the payment is enabling you to make use of/enjoy the product/service/etc. is what may be throwing a wrench into the works here. The purpose of payment is to perpetuate the entity, not to assuage the conscience of the end user. However, the purpose of the end user (through the eyes of the originator) is to PURCHASE the product (not USE) and therefore perpetuate the originator. As long as the product is paid for, the originator is sated. Then, in order for any future payment to be made to the originator, the customer must be sated. This is where the software community seems to be getting kluged. Though noone has the right to demand (per se), regardless of whether someone pays or not, they are the ones who in the long run pay the bills of the originating entity, and therefore, it is the responsibility of said entity (be it StarDock or anyone else) to, at least in some part, satisfy them. Just because they currently use a free product does not mean that they aren't a customer, because, in fact, they may purchase the full product if it suits their needs. To say that free products are released out of generosity or whatever is simply untrue in the case of _any_ company. Companies don't exist on happiness, they exist on paychecks. Though it is true that you'll never make everyone happy, and also true that not all free-users turn into paid-users, as soon as we discount the free-users because they haven't YET payed us for our time, we're shooting ourselves in the foot.
Reply #49 Top
I think Draginol made it clear that he has no problem with constructive criticism and polite requests--he just gets tired of the "I want this now or else..." group. Heck--If something is operating as it's advertised to do, even paying customers have no right to be nasty! If something isn't operating to spec civil discourse will probably get it fixed a lot faster than demands and abuse. I, too, have been moved to frustration when something I've purchased fails to work and the seller is less than responsive to polite requests for help. The next step is not to become an idiot--it's far more effective to become even more polite and offer to allow your lawyer (or whatever regulating board might apply) settle the matter. Most of the time this leads to a resolution--even if it's only getting one's money back. Unless you can prove that you have been damaged in some way not covered by the EULA ( almost impossible) that is all you have a right to. In the case of freeware that means that you get what you paid for--nothing!