Stellar Cartography -- the useless tech?

Think huge maps...

The AIs value it a little so you can sell it to everyone

I have never researched this so far. In small galaxies this tech is of not much use. But if you play large or hugh galaxies this could be of use, since you know eher to go for the best planets. And if you focus then on developing hyperdrive and colony ships, you might take advance of your knowledge.

Yin, I've played huge maps. Useless. What do I care what a sector across the map has? By the time I get there I will either culturally conquer it or colonize it with my troops. And WELL before then my horde of found scouts and sensor drones (and my 3 or 4 survey ships) will have scouted it for me.

M

Think Huge maps and all AIs to Genius.

Problem is range limits. On a huge map, Stellar Cartography will identify stars for you, but you can't reach them. The tech would be very useful if it were right at the beginning of the tech tree.

I agree its use is very limited and complicated by factors such as range. It really should be a first turn tech...

I know with my starting strat it's completely useless. During my colonisation period I've got my miltary cranked to 100% pumping out colony ships and scouts. By the time I turn on any research I've already colonised everything in reach and have encountered a handful of AIs.

It might, as someone said, have a use on Gigantic maps, but I've played on everything up to Huge and still found no use - even if there is a yellow sun out of anybody's current ship ranges, better to send a scout over there where I can see exactly what sort of planets it has and determine just how much of a priority trying to get to it is.

Never researched it for any of my games including gigantic. Scouts do the job perfectly well. Especially now that I'm back with "speedy" scouts...

I found it useful in my latest game on gigantic. Told me exactly how many colony ships I needed to send off towards distant clusters in order to grab the entire cluster in one shot. Normally, I just research it because it's one more tech that I can sell without any reason not to sell it.

Yin, believe me, we're on the same side here. I'm leaning toward your proposal (the one made by many, many before).

In fact, while typing this, I just jogged around the techs so Stellar Cartography is a first rank tech at about half price. I'll test it out tonight. (Do not fear multiverse mongers, I do not use that carrot!)

Then I'll look at a huge or gigantic map (brr, gigantic = time sink from hell) and tell ya what I think. To be honest, I don't see what's wrong with exploring via colony ships. I mean, I have like five flying around at the beginning of the game!

BTW, I personally would love to see planets only be shown in a range of PQs until you orbit a ship around them (or maybe have a survey ship two spaces away or something). Then you will nail down the exact PQ. Interesting, no?

M

I know a way to make it even more useful. After researching cartography, make something called I dunno.. Spectrum Cartography. Make it so you can identify those DARK PURPLE systems. You know.. the ones that seem to harbor awesome planets. I once found a dark purple system with 2 class 26 planets, one class 17 and one class 15. I went to war over that system. Those systems are usually very awesome, and since the alien races ALSO don't know where they are from the start, you can find them later on, after most systems have been found and colonized (that is how I found this one.. much later in the game).

The few times I have researched stellar cartography though, at least on the larger maps, it has been of some use. Usually most systems are occupied, but not all. Often, one, two or three systems can be identified and occupied using that tech. It is also of marginal use to the other races.

In fact, in one game, after I would have thought most systems would have been taken, I nabbed this tech.. and found one system on the edge that no alien race bothered to make it to. So I made the effort. Was it worth it? Well, it was the best system I've ever found, with all the planets colonizable.

fleabitfox

Malleus:

Cool, let us know how the research goes!

I use Stellar Cartography to find any empires I haven't met yet.

"I use Stellar Cartography to find any empires I haven't met yet"
Of course you could just turn on the influence overlay and send a scout towards them for nada.

I play large galaxies, and in many cases, one empire I haven't met yet is on the other side of another. I can't use the influence overlay.

I am agreeing with most of the sentiment. The application of this technology is really limited, if not useless, for all the reasons listed above. Does this technology have any dependent technologies, so that if you don't research it, you cannot get to higher levels of tech?

-Anxiety

I dont think so.

nope-its a dead end--I wonder why the ai will even trade for it--I mean they already know where all the yellow stars are.I NEVER research this tech.

That is why they should add another tech dependent on this one.. make it worth something, imo.

I really would love a tech that showed me where those really sweet dark purple systems are..


fleabitfox

i researched it. Then I looked at my minimap because it said it would mark the stars gray. I could see no change on the map! All the stars still looked the same color to me!

~SDC~

Honor,

It appears in the mini-map, but the difference between the colors is very, very difficult to distinguish. It sort of detracts further from this somewhat mundane ability.

If you fully zoom in, the difference is pretty obvious, the yellow stars are um.. white. Instead of gray. But you can tell.

fleabitfox

OK, now that we have gotten a small cross-section of opinion about this tech, what ways could it be improved to make it more worthwhile?

Some suggestions have been:

1) Make a further tech that locates Dark purples.
[my opinion: limited still to larger map use]

2) Make it also give dark purples
[my opinion: much better, as it immediately benefits both AI and player alike]

3) Move it up the tech tree a few notches
[my opinion: am trying this tonight.]

4) Eliminate it and give players the ability to see yellows.
[my opinion: Well, I can point you to a dozen websites that tell me where the nearest yellow stars are, but I also can see (kinda) the gameplay/AI reasoning for this tech.]

A simple solution. Rename it something like "Long-Distance Planet Interferometry" and give it the same benefit. The idea is you are not seeking out Yellow stars, but guaranteed habitable planets (which occur always at yellows...)

M

Given the backstory, why do the AI's need Stellar Cartography? It strikes me that they should never pay anything for it.

Personally, I would love a version of the game where everyone starts on a level playing field, but won't hold my breath.