DRGUY POSTS:

Here's a high five to you, Doc for noting this important point.

The ridiculousness of this deplorable decision made upon California families is that the federal government, some state government as well as some federal and state judges HAVE overstepped their delegated powers! and problem is way too many of "we, the people", haven't a clue....it's not like they are teaching civics anymore! and people are so busy going about living their lives, they don't even know what's happening to them as their freedoms get taken away little by little.

KFC POSTS:

From what I can tell, it's the homeschoolers who are taking all the first place awards in spelling, history, writing and math bees....and are the same ones getting the highest SAT scores, etc.



Ditto here.



Yes. It was John Dewey, the highly celebrated American educatior and philosopher, who applied the values of humanism to the system of government schools. Dewey admitted that Humanism is a "philosophical, religious, and moral point of view." During the 30 and 40s he preached the doctrine that belief in God, was an "encumbrance" for which we should liberate ourselves. He wrote, "Children must be conditioned , through gradual indoctrination, to reject the processes transmitted by their parents and churches, so they may be prepared for the new world social order." By the time the 60s and 70s rolled in, the secular humanists had gained control of our public educational system and so that a new, more open "value free" attitude could be instilled in the minds of our youth. In order to be successful, they knew they had to overcome and wean the students of all the "old fashioned", "repressive", "moralistic values" acquired at home and church. The principles of secular humanism were to be applied to our school's curriculum by using the teaching techniques such as "values clarification", "situation ethics", "role playing", etc.

This is when homeschooling made a dramatic come-back and has been surging ever since.

Off topic, but may i ask what you consider the "family"?



Yes i've heard/read about it.



I've read that too, but then there are horror stories concerning homeschoolers or there are those like some friends of mine who were pretty much screwed when they home schooled.

Like ive always said, my concern is for the children, period.



Sure life isn't fair, I realize that perfectly well, but does that mean that in all areas it should stay that way? Hell no, and especially not in education. My opinion isn't really about fair, it is about the children - period. They're who i have in mind.




Never said it did, what I'm talking about is that the decision was obviously based on the previous ruling, because it does not state anywhere that homoeschooling is a right. And your argument is a bit odd, because:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." ~10th Amendment

So, let me ask you this. If they're given the right, then why is it taken away in court cases? To me it's contrary to the constitution.

Also, to me it makes sense to public educate them. There are a lot of factors involved besides just what they are taught. I know, i was home schooled. Some examples are lack of social skills, shyness, personality problems, insecurities, and other things. And I am not saying give your child a moral compass according to what you desire, or to not instill you religious beliefs.

Also, and maybe I'm off on what "religion" clause you implied, but isnt that merely for the free excersize thereof? How does education, something that is as far as i know, a civic service, equate with religion?



Only reason I checked it is because the site you got it from seemed fairly biased, and I've long since learned from a debacle of mine a while back, to check multiple sources when something is posted. So, it's nothing against you/nothing personal.



I believe in a federal standard, which would include:

Reading/Writing/Math: Self explained.

History/Geography: Actual fact based history, because history can teach a lot, and not just knowledge, but wisdom and more.

A foreign langauge: The world is becoming less vast, and learning one can really help a child. It helped me, now if only i could retain it.



First off, that comment of mine was referencing something off topic. I wasn't just implying the possibility of homeschoolers using it for that way, but also when other people use it for their so called constitutional rights, which don't exist.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with being influenced by society. There are good and bad, but isn't also about how the child grows? By homeschooling them there's the possibility of

Sadly, if the parent is afraid of being influenced by society, then it sounds like maybe
(*maybe*) they don't feel that their influence on their child is on par. It sounds like maybe they feel like if they let their child be influenced by society (which, mind you, is not such a horror) that their influence is going to be overran by society's. It sounds like maybe they're afraid of that. It's as if, "Oh my goodness, if my child view's just one second of some rapper glorifying whores, he's gonna go to hell." (More or less...)

If it is based on fear, and an irrational thing.



I already said, "I'm not about to say i understand it completely, but im more than willing to learn..." I would like to add, that yes, perhaps I dont understand it correctly, but as I stated, I am willing to learn. I'm not about to say im brilliant, i am far from it.

I'm learning and growing



I respect other opinions, but opinions don't always equate to logic or what is good for a child/society, and they are not always sensible. Opinions are as they are, opinions.

(And yes I am falliable, and more than willing to change my view on something if I see enough/something to change it.)

I will agree with you 99% here. The 1% is a minor quibble, in that...what freedms. I mean there are those who shout that one thing or another is a freedm, but it actually isn't.

But yes, most people just live life.

The thing i fear though, is the homeschooled child whose parents indoctrinate them with a wild and fanatial religious fever, and totally send them down a path that is illogical and unwise, leaving them unready for real life.

Again, the children are what's important to me here.

(And KFC, this is coming from a person who does believe in the supreme being, your God. )

lula posts:



Well since you told KFC that you believe in the Supreme Being, God, I'll answer this way.

God created families as one man and one woman united in marriage for life with children either by birth or adoption. Throughout Scripture God speaks to us in terms of family. We are His children, He is our Father. God created the family to be the basis of society. It's the original cell of social life. The family is the natural society.

According to the catechism of the Catholic Chruch the duties of parents #2222, Parents must regard their children as children of God and respect them as human persons. Showing themselves obedient to the will of the Father in Heaven they educate their children to fulfill God's law.

2223, Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children, They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelty, and disinterested service to one another is the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues. This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self mastery--the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the "material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones". Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children.

2229 As those first responsible for the education of their children, parents have the right to choose a school for them which corresponds to their own convictions. This right is fundamental. As far as possible parents have the duty of choosing schools that will best help them in their task as Christian educators. Public authorities have the duty of guaranteeing this parental right and of ensuring the concrete conditions for its exercise.

Yet, over the last 40 or so years, our society has consistently and purposefully attempted to change the meaning of family. Traditional marriage has suffered tremendously from the effects no fault divorce, cohabitation, and now legalization of "same-sex marriage".

Here in the case we are discussing we see various powers of the state and federal government have devalued parenthood, as they take more authority in this issue of education.

All news media are biased. All of them. But I do find this particular source has been fair and truthful in reporting so far. But yes, it's always good to check multiple sources. So no problem.



good point Lula.....I should've said that....lol.



Well the best thing for kids is to let their parents parent them. Once the government gets nvolved, it's not usually a good thing.

I've seen two families get messed up by interferring with parental discipline. One involved a young poor family who was scared out of their minds when a government agency knocked on their door when they found out via a teacher that their boy was "spanked." They told them if they "spanked" him again, he was to be taken from the family. I knew this family. She worked for me for seven years. She was so scared she wouldn't discipline her child for fear of losing him.....need I tell you how he turned out?

The same thing happened to another family I knew. This time it was a divorce situation and the father who is a business owner and a "good guy" was told he had no choice but to keep his hand of his incorrigible son. He told me he was threatened with jailtime. He also said it was quite obvious the boy held this over his father's head. To this day, the dad blames his son's troubles and lack of discipline on the government's interference. He now says, "let the government take care of him." His son is a slug and not a productive person to society.




Well I don't think it's based on fear so much as taking responsibility for their own child. Many parents dump their kids off anywhere they can and take barely any responsibility other than feeding and clothing them.

When you have a bucket of apples and there's one bad apple in the bunch.....what are the chances the good apples are going to make the one bad apple good?



That's good. We're all learning and growing. Otherwise we'd be dead. But before you make rash decisions on parenting or giving your parental control to the government, it would help that you become one first. Don't you think this will make you a bit more credible?

KFC:

People are allowed to have, and express, opinions even when they don't have personal experience with the topic. It may make him more credible, but it's fine to talk about it now. Actually, I'd take his opinion on homeschooling seriously because he states he was homeschooled.

General Comment:

At this point, I need control over what my kids are learning, because without that control, the government is going to teach them things they don't need to learn yet, and not teach them things they do need to be learning. Also, I don't want to worry about what school district I'm living in. I want the decisions put back in the hands of the parents.

KFC WRITES:

I missed this one....what's the name of the article? It must have been when my computer was in the shop.

One ties in well with the other though. Governor Arnie pushed legislation through that mandates all public schools teach and effectively promote homosexuality, bisexuality and transexuality as normal; just another lifestyle.....BUT how many Californians actually share this moral principle and want their children taught this ideology?

That's the rub....education has become an ideological battleground. I bet after Gov. Arnie signed this legislation into law, many parents pulled their kids out of the public school system sending them to either private schools or homeschooling.

This must have made those who control education in the State of California fume...doncha think?

Imagine a few Los Angeles judges telling parents they can't home school. I can't imagine that! Kinda pushing totalitarianism isn't it? Anyway, I hope those home schooling parents push back. What a battle!

The most Dishonorable, judge Judge H. Walter Croskey is a pox on the Constitutions of California and the United States. Him and Hitler would have gotten along well.

I think it's laughable that, after decades of hearing from teachers' organizations that there is no need to maintain standards for teachers, all of the sudden stadards are important for anyone else.

When so many students graduate from high school without being able to read, public school teachers and totalitarian judges are in no position to point fingers.

Apparently, the only thing this fool of a judge thinks parents should have a say in is whether to abort their kids or not. Once out of the womb, he thinks they belong to the government.

What a Storm Trooping Nazi! I bet he thought Schindler's List was a comedy!

Yay for Godwin's Law, people.

I wonder - is there really any way to have a political argument on the net anymore without referencing Nazism or Hitler in any way, shape, or form?  Certainly not on JU, guys.

Come on, you can be more creative in your arguments than that.  Totally joto.

If the jack boots fit.

~Springtime... for Hitler...~

Yes, I was just thinking about this yesterday.  It's ok for us to abort our kids, but not teach them?  Huh?  In Belgium they are jailing parents because they are NOT vaccinating their kids for Polio.  Huh? 

I'm all for vaccinations.  I complied with them all but I parent's rights seriously.  Why is it ok for us to abort  (read kill) but not okay to not vaccinate? 

This just makes no sense at all. 

Because we're supposed to bow down to their obvious superior intellect and knowledge of what's best for us.

Finally, someone who understands scientists!