SO like the republicans to think that their idiocy somehow matters to real people.

LIAR! Even when told the truth, you still dont get it. Why do you feel compelled to lie when the truth would serve just as well? Is this a compulsion developed from child hood and the class warfare from your mother? Are you a kleptomaniac? DO you still wet the bed? Are you having trouble living in reality? Does it all seem like a strange dream?

Inquiring shrinks want to know.

Sorry Doc, but it sounds like you're trumpeting a large logical fallacy. Might want to rethink it, or just not bother with the guy/gal.

Pray tell, what is the logical fallacy?

Sounds like a straw man to me. i.e. Misrepresenting the opponent's argument. (And yes there is one, you just have to dig deep into the mud.)

Perhaps I am wrong, but it really does sound like it. Besides, I'm not meaning to point out the flaw in order to get you mad or anything, just saying "Hey dude, this is what I see, just so you know." *shrugs* If you don't like it, then no worries.

No, there is not. I told her, and she acknowledged with another insult, that I am not a republican. Conservative, yes. Yet she perists with the lie. That is not a draw, it is a lie. But then you do not have to "dig" anything. She has not made an arguement yet anywhere, just insults because she cant.

Besides, it has been a long time since we had a real loony loopy luddite liberal. I am letting her bury herself.

Why expend energy arguing when the other is just spewing hatred? let them spew!

Like I said, maybe I am wrong. Besides, you're still setting her/him up; baiting them. Heh, now I get why they call it a sport, it's open season on liberals here on JU. I think I'll just sit on the sidelines. Survival of the smartest! lol Anywho, have a good day.

Oh, and why? Because I don't see the point in egging them on. In fact, I don't get, or see the point in many things y'all do here. But that's just me.

Shhh! Of course I am! What is the fun otherwise?

And why? So they can show you what the loons on your side of the aisle are really like. You may vote for Obama, call yourself a super liberal, spout "love, peace" flowery type statements. Even make some real stupid statements at times.

But you have never been like this loon. And I doubt you ever will. Know your enemy, and what better way than to let them tell you in their own words.

Oh please I kick the snot out of rightwing pansys like you on a daily basis. You are all for running your mouth but you run like GW from a national guard drug test when called on your lies.

What is the point in unnecessary agitation? You're not going to kick a dog just because it's fun, right?



Actually, I call myself Lucas. My party, is just an eight letter word just beneath my name on my voting card. If I could vote without registering a party, I would. Besides, I'm primarily (at the core) an old style liberal, with some modern things attached. But yes, I am very much a hippie at heart, and you know what? I'm damn proud of it. We need more people like that. And you know what, I'm not all flowery, I do have my head on straight, I just favor peace, love, inaction and what not over war, violence and everything opposite of it.

Granted, I have, but so have you Doc. (Remember, you boycott the news...but use it anyway. )



See, that's where we differ. I don't see you as my enemy. I don't see anyone as my enemy, because I remember that first and foremost, they're human just like I am. Second, they're American, just like me.



Oi vey...dude, or dudette, if you have any common sense, just give it up.

Where? Not here! You got your tuckus handed to you on a paper plate WF! But then I would not expect you to understand debate, or logic since you have none. Just insults (and with the 3 fingers, self definitions) and opinions.

For the clueless - Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one.  

You can. It is a right, not a privelege. I have never registered to a party and voted in every election since I turned 18, save 2.



You misunderstand. I do not boycott the news, I boycott the MSM.



Nor did I say we were. I said know you enemy. If you are a true liberal, and believe in liberal ideals, then TP is an anathema to you. Their ilk only shows the ugly nasty side of liberalism (for some that is all there is, but to be fair let's assume there is more). Know you enemy is to let YOU know who is trashing your views. And it is not me, talk radio, or the GOP. It is loons like TP. After all, over 40% of the electorate is independant, and they decide elections. They are not going to vote for a party of hate and insults, and that is what this loon - and it appears the only thing this loon - is all about.

So you just aren't interested in what happened unless its the view that you want to hear. At least you are honest about your imbecilic bias.

But your news comes from the MSM. How can you boycott the MSM without boycotting the news?



But that's the thing, I don't see enemies. I see everyone as humans, Americans. I disagree with TP, but i dont see him as an enemy.



Not where I'm from.

For one, I read it on the internet. You are correct, that does involve the MSM, but unfortuntely for them, does nothing for their ratings.

I also use non-traditional feeds, which give me my news from the MSM, but is not the MSM. One can hardly argue that Yahoo is MSM, although they do take the feeds.



I know. You will not see the enemy until they are quartered in your house. I know that about you. But one day you may wake up and realize that not everyone loves you, and many are out to gig you, however they can. That is called experience (note, I said many - that is not most or all).



Then you have a court issue. The right to vote cannot be denied period. It is in the constitution, and whoever is denying you that, is violating the constitution. I would take it to the ACLU - no cost to you, and they actually sometimes do take real cases.

But they're still feeds...from the MSM. Sorry, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this, and still I'm getting to the point where: You still get news from the MSM, even if it is "filtered" via Yahoo.



I know that not everyone loves me, I'm not naive. (Duh, look around here Doc, I'm not exactly liked like a pay check when you're broke.) I know that there are people who will hate me, trust me I know that. I may look unexperienced, but I've gone through a good amount of shit so far in my life. Now I'm not saying I am all wise or great, far from it, i'm just saying there is more to me than you think.

But still, I'm not going to call them my enemy. They're still human, and they're just being asses. Simple enough.




In Oregon (as far as I know) you have to be registered with a party in order to vote.

So does talk radio, yet we are constantly being told that is another medium. So which is it? You can have it as the MSM, or you can say it was filtered through other sites. I will buy that. But I dont "get" it directly from them. Too much bias in it.



When they have a gun pointed at your mother, wife, lover - they are your enemy. Period.



Like I said, take it to the ACLU - it will cost you nothing and it is unconstitutional.

Well, I don't plan on getting to that point. Besides, my mother, well they are completely screwed, she's one feisty firecracker, and would pretty much kick their ass.

If I did get to that point, I still wouldn't see them as my enemy, I would defend myself and my family though. Sorry Doc, try as you may, I'm not going to change my mind. Maybe down the road, years down the road, I will change, but right now, nope.



But how much filtering? It brings up the question: What really is the news today? We have so many spin news agencies, that it becomes difficult to know whether or not what is being reported is really what happened. And Doc, the reality is that there is always, always going to be bias. Bias is a part of life.



Meh, I'm already registered and will be voting in the next week or two I believe. (We do it by mail here, the oddity Oregon is.)

You will.

Nope, trust me, others have tried and failed. Miserably. See, that's the thing, I am stubborn as hell.

You are also young. Along time to you is a year.

N'ah, a long time is more than a year. I learned the waiting game, so to speak, with some recent things going on in my life. Like being a fool and not telling some one how you feel about them, that you love them, and then not getting another chance for 3+ years. I'm grateful I've been given a second chance, I'm going to make the most of it.

Anywho, sorry, I'm digressing, just a lot on my mind right now.

Also, concerning time. I've been waiting for a decent father figure my entire life, 21 years, and I've yet to have one. Not just that, but I get time in that there are health problems that I suffer from that I will live with the rest of my life. So time, yes I know time, I understand time.

I'm not going to get involved in any of the vitriol that has come up in the comments, I just want to address what Drag originally said.

The man served for six years in the military.  I'm sure we each have our own opinions of him, and I'm sure we can both agree that he's nuts, but I think it's stepping over the line to call a veteran a rabid anti-American who hate the country he served.  Obama has denounced him several times, as well.

John Hagee, on the other hand, has claimed that New Orleans was punished by God with hurricane Katrina due to their vast amounts of sin.  He has said that Hitler did nothing the Romans did not do to the Jews.  McCain has said that he is "proud" to have his pastor's endorsement.  Why is this not even on the radar when speaking of Jeremiah Wright?

Out of context, and the woman made a point to clarify that she meant she has never been so proud as she has been recently.  Rejecting that clarification is nothing but quibbling over the word "as".  I, for one, think that it is telling of the candidate's overall strength if his wife leaving the word "as" out of a sentence one of two times she made a passing statement is really going to be one of the cudgels used to fight him with.

Once again, it seems a truly trivial thing to uphold as a reason to reject a candidate for president.  "Well, on one occasion Senator Obama failed to state the pledge" sounds like a rather weak argument against the man should it come up in debate.   

John McCain has frequently granted interviews, made speeches, etc. without a flag pin.  I cannot fathom a reason to chastize Obama, and not McCain, for this.  It's a pin.  It's an issue of non-patriotism only if you already feel at some level that the man is not a patriot. 

I would like to see what lies beneath the "etc." in this sentence.

A few points here.  First, the notion that the left wants to change the country to their views implies that the country right now excludes them in order to serve your views.  This is not your country, your party's country, or your sect of your party's country.  It is ours.  That's the whole point. 

Second, what do you think these mythical liberal values are, and how in the world do you think they differ from conservative ones?  Family values, as if no liberal cares for his own family?  Jobs, as if no liberal needs one?  The notion that there is some vast rift in values between liberals and conservatives is simply false.  The difference is not in values, it's in how to go about acting on them.  There are not liberal values and conservative values, there are american values - human values.  Denying this serves a very simple political purpose: if all these values are exclusive of liberals, then there is no platform for liberals to stand on; thus, liberals stand for nothing.  It is a political stance to speak of values as if liberals and conservatives don't share them.

Third, the notion that you can think the US is fundamentally flawed puzzles me.  The country is flawed?  Do you mean the soil?  The people?  The government?  Obviously you do not mean that liberals think the soil is corrupt somehow, but it serves the larger point.  No politician runs to change people, they run for the people to change their government.  It is not that the US is fundamentally flawed, it's that the status quo standard operating procedure in our government is fundamentally flawed.  Translation: it's that the administration is flawed, not the country. This is a view that Republicans hold of Democratic presidencies as well as Democrats of Republican ones.