Scouts Vs LRMs

i saw someone else doing this, they said it only really works with advent scouts but he swore by it. it seemed to work

It is only a good idea if you use advent as their scouts have a suicide ability that does a lot of damage.

The problem with the other 2 races is that if they see you spamming LRM's, they'll probably encourage you to keep spamming then come in with a assault frigate fleet and wipe you out. At least with flacks they have other uses.

Note that i have not tried this before, and the above is facts that have been stated.

-Edit- You use the suicide ability if you are facing anything but LRM's. -Edit-

This doesn't work. I've tried it many times and found it to be navel-gazing theoryism.

sry not really related but what the hell is "navel-gazing theoryism." i might add that 2 of those aren't even, like, words...

I did the maths, using the numbers on the soasewiki but there are some question marks...

I assume approx 3,5 credits per unit crystal or metal

all ships regen shield at 1/s and hull at 0,33/s during combat, mitigation subtracts a further 15% from this, I have chosen not to count with increased mitigation since damage under 12,5 DPS doesn't increase mitigation

I assume that antilight gets 200% against LRM shields and armour making 6 DPS for the seeker, after regen that makes it 5 DPS against shield and 4,66 DPS against armour

I assume each point armour subtracts 5% total damage

I assume antimedium gets 100% against seekers making 11 DPS for the LRM and 13 DPS for the Kanrak respectively, down below are regen corrected values

LRM does 10 DPS against shields and 9.66 against armour

Kanrak does 12 DPS against shields and 11.66 against armour

hp = hitpoints (shield + hull(armour included)) bt = build time s = supply

Javelis LRM cost 275 $ 45 M 25 C approx 520$ hp 805 (280 + 525) bt 21 s 4

Kanrak cost 400 $ 65 M 45 C approx 785$ hp 1020 (360 + 660) bt 23 s 6

Seeker cost 200$ hp 865 (425 + 440) bt 13 s 2

Ship firing at Ship, time for shields to drop, time for hull to explode, time to die

1 seek vs 1 Jav 280/5 = 56 s 525/4,66 = 112,66 s 168,66 s
2,6 seek vs 1 Jav 280/13 = 21,5 s 525/12.12 = 43,33 s 64,83 s

1 jav vs 1 seek 425/10 = 42,5 s 440/9,66 = 45,54 s 88,04 s

1 seek vs 1 kanr 360/5 = 72 s 660/4,66 = 141,63 s 213,63 s
3,9 seek vs 1 kanr 360/19,5 = 18,46 s 660/18,17 = 36,32 s 54,78 s

1 kanr vs 1 seek 425/12 = 35,42 s 440/11,66 = 37.73 s 73,15 s

so from this table it can be surmised that a single seeker never stands a chance but given that is is cheaper than both LRMs we can assume a numerical superiority, resource equivalence seems to be 2,6 seekers per Javelis and 3,9 per every Kanrak.

Break even damagewise (where you expect 1 seeker to pop for every LRM) seems to be 1,9 seekers per Javelis and 2.9 seekers per kanrak

Not only do the numbers add up you end with a financial net gain.

So to sum it up, seekers seem to be a viable LRM spam counter, but they are severely lacking against almost everything else (useful against siege, colony and constructors for whatever it is worth...)

Let the seeker spam begin!

www.dictionary.com

Though I admit I made up "theoryism", it should be obvious considering the context. It's a polite way of saying "you really didn't test this, did you? because it doesn't work."

please specify what doesn't work, seekers as a counter to LRMs or seekers suiciding their way to glory and martyrdom?

Seekers as a LRM counter. Martyrdom is fun though.

the above numbers would suggest otherwise...

It doesn't work.

It's funny when 40 seekers blow up a cap ship, but the fact that martyrdom is affected by shield mitigation makes it less efficient than you would like.

Unfortunately, seekers are 200, and LRms are 245. True, LRMs cost metal and crystal. But if you're spamming seekers, you have excess metal and crystal, which sell for not a whole lot on the market. Which means that you are simply using your resources less efficiently. Efficiency wise, it's closer to 1.6-2 seekers per LRM, depending on black market exchange. So they BARELY win.

Furthermore, while LRMs do lose (somewhat), they simple kill your cap first, then your buildings. Then the game is over anyway. Anyway, the strat has been tried repeatedly, and it's just a theorycraft idea. It doesn't work at all. Defense vessels get the job done far better.

well, given an income around 20 $/s I will make more $ / buildtime than the actual seeker costs, if I want to produce from two shipyards simultaneously then everything tilts towards your version, the whole idea is to not trade away minerals and crystal and instead use them directly

The goal of using seekers instead of defence vessels as LRM counter is to be able to put down harmony labs in the beginning and get early trade.

I'd love to try this out against a good player, knowing HuntingX's penchant for practice over theory I'm willing to fight him 1v1 on a small map, parameters being established prior to the fight. So far I've been running over bootloads of mediocre TEC players using this strat but it remains to be seen if it holds up to someone who knows how to micro...

I use the handle GSV ingame, see you there

Game finished.

Seekers don't cut it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/103825278/seekers_suck.record.html

He killed 1 lrm I was too lazy to micro away since he had already lost everything.

I killed his whole fleet ^^

well, it has been proven that I don't know how to micro, what we actually established though is that HuntingX knows how to sova rush a small map and I don't know how to counter that...

what we didn't do was to drop a load of seekers vs a load of lrms in the middle of nowhere

The Sova was cosmetic. I could have easily won with any other Tec capital ship.

A battle of lrms vs seekers in the middle of nowhere is pretty stupid. The LRMs should never spend their time FIGHTING the seekers. Just kill everything else.

For once HuntingX is right. You said the numbers suggest otherwise - well, numbers != gameplay. I've cranked out a bunch of scouts before because I was not doing so well in a game to battle an LRM fleet, and it just didn't work.

two responses are possible to that sova rush, and it depends on how ballsy you are.

1) defend yourself, just build defense vessels, they'll counter the LRMs and blow up the Sova's squadrons. eventually you can try to blow up (or at least chase off) the Sova with your Radiance.

2) counter-attack. send your cap ship (and some disciples or something) to HIS home planet and try blow up the frigate yard. you'll get hurt pretty bad too so its a gamble and a race to see who recovers more quickly or who ducks out of the game of chicken first.

The seeker would be the most annoying combat unit to use since its auto-attack is off

So turn it on.