The final word on global climate change

I doubt that the religious zealots will respond to this post but the rest of you will have some new information to help you in your arguments with them.

Oh Paladin.... the "final" word on climate change? That's about as ridiculous as hoping that there will one day be a final battle in Iraq. All actions have consequences. The collective actions of humanity have consequences, which successive generations (that's our children) will have to live with.

The idea that we have no effect whatsoever on our planet, or that that effect is so small it's negligible, is bunk. At the turn of the last century (1900) there were approximately 1 billion people alive on this planet. Today there are over 6 billion of us, eating, drinking, crapping, and burning gas to drive our cars (okay, not ALL 6 billion of us have the luxury of automobiles and industrially manufactured goods, but you get the picture).

Our way of life is simply not sustainable. Nature, and the very laws of physics abhore ineffeciency, and our current methods of production are damn ineffecient. An internal combustion engine is less than 20 % efficient in it's energy transfer and yet we drag our heels on going to zero emission electric vehicles that are 70-80% efficient, work out to the equivalency of over 100 miles per gallon (or more, depending on the model) and only have 15 moving parts while an internal combustion has over 700 moving parts, all leading to more things that can and do break down. All while we still pay outrageous sums for a gallon of gasoline. At the end of the day, we will squander finite resources in the name of a political ideology, all to try and prove a futile point.

I do agree with you that we need to get off this planet.... if all 6 billion of us were to have the same quality of life as America, we would currently need 5 planet earths to provide the resource base that is currently drawn from.

A handful of cold winters and a handful of warm summers don't really mean much either way. This year in northern Canada, we've had the first "normal" winter in a long time. The last few winters have been way too short and warm, so if anything this is a welcome respite.

Also, last but not least, I would be very interested in reading this revelation from the IPCC- could you please provide the source from which you are quoting the IPCC as stating that man is not a significant contributor to global warming? By the way, FOX news or CNN mean nothing, they are portals of public opinion- a link to a scientific publication would be appreciated!

People fail to realize that 6 billion microbes, in relation to the planet, is just dandruff. We can cause a scab or 2, but so far, we do not have the capacity to bring the beast to its knees. And only our over inflated ego makes us think we can.



Yes it is. If we are to regress to the 19th century method of doing things, you would be correct. Man has adapted, and advanced. And become more efficient at the same time it has become cleaner, in living our way of life. And the only thing that will prevent it from continuing is if we handcuff those looking for new ways to be more efficient, cleaner and productive.



Again, a false assumption. The world is no less blessed with land or resources than the US. It is in how they are used or not used. If the whole world was utilitzing their resources the way America does (not in the waste which is really a side issue to this discussion), the world could feed itself and live our life. Graft, greed, war and incompetance are major road blocks to that goal. And something man has to solve to get to the point where North America is just another state on the planet. But again, those issues are not relevant as they do not address the statement you made implying the capacity of the planet is reached. There is no empirical data to support that contention, just the ravings (from another article - of the generational fruit loops) of those soon enough proved wrong time and time again. But like all who are proved wrong not by overt actions, but by the passage of time, they just move the yardsticks after each mile stone is reached.



And finally while what you state here is true, it is what you do not state that shows the futility and reason that the planet has not gone to this form of transportation. For the conversion of the natural resources INTO electricity is what makes that method of energy just as inefficient. That is because most of the electricity is from coal (and to a lesser extent oil). Until we start using Water, Wind, Solar and yes, even Nuclear (the most efficient by far available today), your statement is on the face true, but in reality not. Electicity (Unless you are Professor Emmitt Brown) does not come from the sky.

I love this argument, it is so nice to see you signed on to the group that wants to preserve the planet. NEWS FLASH::: the planet is doomed! There is nothing we can do to save it! The Sun is in its last half of life and no matter how we conserve or even stop using any of the Earth’s resources the planet will die long before the Sun does. If you are so worried about our children then you better find a new planet to live on. The next thing people like you will say that it will happen billions of years from now who cares what happens then because everyone we know will be long dead. They why bother saving the planet for our children?



Nice argument, there were quadrillions of single celled organisms that worked hard for almost a billion years to transform our planet from a nitrogen, sulfur dioxide, carbon dioxide, oxygen atmosphere to a nitrogen, oxygen atmosphere. So yes, we can change the atmosphere over time. A billion years time, and in that time span all we will have accomplished is the reversal of what plants have done, bringing the planet back to its natural state. Of course that would make the air toxic to all life except plants on the planet. Is that your goal of going back to nature? I think not, what you fail to realize is that when the plants destroyed the pristine planet and transformed it into a planet that supports human life, it is the third time the world has been changed. Think of that my friend, the planet has had three major transformations and each time new species become dominant. This time it is us, how is it that the Earth has gone through these transformations naturally and we show up and suddenly it is our fault? What makes you think that we have the power to change the climate? Our atmosphere is 21 miles thick, that covers all 24 plus thousand miles of the planet. A climatologist, well respected around the world has stated that 37 out of every hundred thousand molecules of our atmosphere is carbon dioxide, we would have to work for a hundred or a thousand years at current world out put to bring that up to 38 molecules. Now are you suggesting that our planet can not handle this huge influx in that same amount of time?



Let me guess, you are under the misconception that we are running out of fuel to run our world? You are under the old way of thinking that fossil fuels are running low. What you failed to learn in high school is that oil is created not by the decomposition of fossils but by micro organisms. Heat is not even needed as once thought and the proof of this is the moon triton, an icy moon that is covered in hydrocarbons naturally produced without man or heat. The evil oil companies discovered this, 30 years ago and it has been verified but it seems you have not noticed this minor discovery that the scientific world has proven and is a scientific fact, meaning that it has been independently researched and all attempts to disprove the theory have failed. What this means is that as long as we have these little bugs eating what they eat and crapping and pissing oil we won’t run out any time soon. We have yet to tap oil in the US that is sitting waiting for us to get when we are ready. The largest deposit in the world is in the US but the tree huggers won't let us get it.



We will never have to worry about all 6 billion of us living at our standard of living. There are too many people like you in charge around the would to prevent that.



It is funny how your religion dismisses a hand full of warm or cold anything while at the same time you accept a hand full of warm or cold to scream global climate change. If you notice that all of the studies you embrace are less than a decade old, that is because the climate changes with such regularity that 30 years ago we feared an ice age, then 10 years ago we feared global warming and now because the cycle is so easily predictable your religion has changed position to global climate change to cover both bases. In the time it takes to gain converts to one side or the other we see that the climate has changed and it is time to go in the other direction.



Well if you are not going to accept the news organizations that are charged with reporting the truth to us then why do you accept the reports from the UN or any other organization that supports your argument? I would suggest you look it up yourself, if I can find it so can you. You see the last time I brought you facts you dismissed them and since we are dealing with your religion it does no good to point out facts as long as you choose to cling to your religion.

1. People will find a way off our rock before a billion years is up, heck we may even have ascended to a higher plane of existence

 

2. Industry has had a rather high effect on the earth's atmosphere... Have you ever been in Shanghai? The place is covered in smog. Hell , the density of carbon dioxide has about doubled since industrialisation began. The efforts of microbes pales in comparison, we've basically been burning those microbes waste products for the last 150 years

 

3. You are correct, we have a lot of fuel, but not oil, mostly coal. Oil also takes millions of years to form, and it would be useless to try industrially due to the first law of thermodynamics.

 

4. This is basically flamebait.

 

5. What's wrong with religion? You got some kinda beef with it? You're kinda tarring christianity with those comments there.

 

6. Again you insult christianity.

You know this for a fact? Please tell me how. Or is it your wish that we do this?



So the millions of years without industry in which microbes reduced the carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide atmosphere to our current state making it breathable for us does not count? What you seem to suggest is that if nature makes the planet habitable for mammals its okay. If man’s one tenth of one percent contribution to the atmosphere is so bad why is it that the other nine tenths of a percent are okay? Is it because of nature? Carbon Dioxide is the primary gas in the atmosphere on the planet Mars, yet a sunny blisteringly hot day on that planet is just below freezing? So much for the theory of global warming due to man. How about we look at the real cause of global climate change. The Sun.



Please explain this theory in the context of your statement. Oil if found almost everywhere we look on this planet. We even found it on a moon around Jupiter. The shortage comes from people preventing us from getting it. There is enough oil in North Dakota and off our coasts to supply America for 50 years but we are not allowed to get it. As I said everywhere we looked we have found rich deposits but we have to leave it in the ground. We can’t build refineries because people won’t let us. We now import 30% of our gasoline because our refining capacity it at 110% because of this the price of gas has gone up. It will take 15 years to fix the problems created 30 years ago when they stopped building refineries against the advice of the greedy oil companies. Had we listened to them then we would not be paying 5 dollars a gallon now.



I never said anything was wrong with it. Are you looking for a reason to be offended?



Please show me how I do this. I think it is your desire to be insulted rather than me actually insulting anyone.