Enemy Cheat?

from Stardock Forums
I am curious how an enemy civilization gets to battleship technology without researching the path to it. No, they didnt trade for it, they are the only civ with that tech, however, when I try to trade with them, Space Militarization is on my list, but not theirs, even though they have b-ship technology. I thought this tech was on the path??? :notsure:
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
You could skip techs if you have the next in line.
Do they have interstellar tactics?
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Not sure, I havent researched it yet...hmm, wonder if that's what happened, but damn, those enemy civs get to the higher tech QUICK!! Wish I knew how they did that
Star Control: Origins
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Just do a scroll through their techs available for trade. U should be able to see it if they have researched it.

Battleship/dreadnoughts are high on AIs' priority list. The AIs also exchange tech very aggressively. Or bully others to hand them over.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
That's weird. If you are still curious, you could try to look at the debug (.err?) file to see if they really managed to trade for it somehow.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
hmm, looked through the debug.err file, they never researched battleships, but they researched dreadnoughts before they even got close to the tech I would have to follow to get it.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
In fact, they even have up through terror star researched, there are no trades for techs showing, and I just finished b-ship tech research.
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
I suggest you give the game the benefit of the doubt till the developers wake up (its 3am over there) and maybe respond to you.

If this was rampant, hundreds of players would already have been up in arms :)
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
OK, thought I'd post the log from the debug.err file for the Arceans:

Arcean Empire: Intellence -> 100
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Industrial Theory
Arcean Empire: Intellence -> 100
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Defense Theory
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Energy Channeling
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Nano-Metal Composition
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Basic Environment Control
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Torian Confederation for $ 315!
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Alexians for $ 116!
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Corvette Technology
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Advanced Trade
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Scottlingas for $ 165!
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Yor Collective. But they were too poor to pay
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Exotic Alloys
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Drengin Empire for $ 329!
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Tri-strontium Alloy
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Cultural Trade
Destroying ship Arcean Empire Flagship. Orbiting: 0
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Hyperspace
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Gravity Mastering
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Yor Collective for $ 1730!
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Alexians for $ 254!
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Kwilasians for $ 2667!
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Interstellar Business
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Anti-matter
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Hyper Warp
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Large Scale Building
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Dreadnought Technology
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Mega Phasers
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Advanced Battle Armor
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Nano-Frequency Electronics
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Diplomacy
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Drengin Empire for $ 1406!
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Nanobots
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Alliances
Arcean Empire senate and their party in control is 2
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: 2D Phasing
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Star Democracy
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Star Federation
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Carinoids for $ 316!
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Scottlingas for $ 516!
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Antimatter Weapons
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Artificial Satellites
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Artificial Planets
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: 3D Phasing
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Spatial Rifts
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Interstellar Refining
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Carinoids for $ 231!
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Scottlingas for $ 56!
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed I-League. But they were too poor to pay so relations have deteriorated!
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Trade Organizations
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Sensors
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Drones
AI: Arcean Empire blackmailed Drengin Empire for $ 788!
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Conglomerates
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: 4D Phasing
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Nano Mining
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Terror Star
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Basic Repair
Arcean Empire senate and their party in control is 2
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Xeno Trade Persuasion
Arcean Empire (3): Researching: Xeno Intimidation

That is every line from the file that has to do with the arceans, seems they have a lot of techs out of order...
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Could they have gotten those by trade from a minor who doesn't exist anymore? Or an event?

For that matter, are you sure that every tech they have that you don't have is on the table, trade-wise?
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Trades would have shown up in the debug file I believe, and there are none showing.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
If so, that research list is really wierd. Advanced Trade as 7th tech without any of the required techs like Trade, Universal Translator or diplomacy researched. Just to mention one oddity. My guess (my hope) is that techtrades aren't included in debug file.

I also gotten that Cuelos feeling in some games, though... The AI getting some techs from the void when there is none that yet had the required techs. I used to dismiss it as an event or something. But it seems to common for that. Besided I never get any techevents, if there are any.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
The creative pick can occasinoally grant free techs I think, but there are too many techs being researched out of order for that to be a good explanation. I think what we need is the full log, just in case something has been missed. Don't forget that you can loot technologies from conquered planets too.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
That's a good point.

There are also some other unknowns there. Does the blackmail logline also display any techs that were extorted? (in my experience, the AI *frequently* blackmails for cash+tech) Is it certain that tech-for-tech trades show up? Are there loglines that affect the Arceans, but don't mention them by name? What about the tech-swapping UP event?

*shrug*

As Brad and others have already pointed out, when the AI gets accused of cheating, it's invariably because it's just using the game mechanics more cleverly that us fleshlings :)

~SDC~
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, the log posted above included every line that has the name Arcean in it, I would post the whole log, but its to big...
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
And yeah, I have seen Brad point out the the AI doesnt cheat, but damn, they move VERY quickly up the tech tree in almost every game I play where intelligence levels are high.
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
I've never seen the AI blackmail other AI for techs in the debug log, only for cash.
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
If you've saved and reloaded the game, the trading or whatever could have happened while you were playing previously.