Mod Wishlist

So, I'm not much of a modder myself, but there are a couple mods I really would like to see for ToA.

1) A mod to allow all 12 civilizations in a single game, or perhaps even 13 to allow for one custom race. The new Immense galaxy size just begs for this. Assuming it can be done, naturally some of the UI would have to be modded to accomodate.

2) A mod that slows down research speed. Even on Very Slow I find it to be a a good deal too fast for my tastes, especially on larger galaxy sizes. This actually might be something I can change myself, but I don't know which files I would need to edit.

3) A mod that gives every race exclusive trade rights over their own unique techs. That is, the Thalans can trade their unique techs to the Torians, but the Torians then cannot trade them to the Iconians. I don't know if this is possible, but I know the special trade goods already function similarly. Perhaps there's a flag or something that can be applied to technology as well?
8,188 views 10 replies
Reply #1 Top
1) AFAIK, this code_boost can't be done for a number of reasons explained by CariElf a couple of months back. There is built-in limit (39, or somethin'... including Minors and Mega-Events driven popup races.) on the number of active opponents during any games no matter what map settings or conditions were defined; that, i believe, has more to do with how much heap can physically adress the extra CPU demands and IF local memory has what it takes to handle that many more cycles. It sure could be fun, though. But, as they say in development circles, you can shift_flip a binary call multiple times but that operation MUST be compatible with targeted hardwares.

2) Get your typo gear at the ready, cuz you'd be in for a HUGE amount of editing; all cost values found in any tech-trees can be increased beyond inherent game-balancing factors. You wanna make it impossibly tough or childish easier? Simply, type whatever you want in numerous & every file slots. Games may act a bit weird, ever after up until genuine SD devised elements come right back into your mind, knife between teeth & a revenge worth boring & deserved Defeats or smart enough REAL Victories.

3) Dunno if i could understand you that well with this one. Indirectly, this reasoning is already IN the game by human made choices as to which things can or not be traded. Another sort of solution would be to alter the default trees manually and tick the corresponding "Trading" options in the Tech-Editor.

Modding is more about enhancing a given context, than any Revolution attempts. Although, that's just me thinking outloud -- ;)
Reply #2 Top
Thanks, that's just the sort of info I was looking for.

1) Theoretically, would it be possible to remove two minor races to allow for major races?

2) It's not really clear what you're saying about balance and the game acting weird. Though I did just find where I can edit tech costs, so I am getting to work on that now.

3) Well, the restrictions need to apply to the AI as well. Of course the player can decide not to trade away their own tech, but I can't do anything about all the other races trading with each other.
Reply #3 Top
Sadly, i guess (but 99.5% sure)... Minors and/or should stay what they are. Besides, the option allows for a Min(0)-Max(8) ratio for them while maintaining the Majors at 1 to 9 available slots.
(Btw, IMHO and in my case, i've got my headful of thoughts & planning Micro-Macro stuff when i play against a combo of only 6 Majors and 4 Minors onto Medium or Large Maps!)

Although, TotA takes huge liberties with the Minors concept with some huge gameplay implications. A most welcomed feature - to me. So, there it is; YOUR indirect wish for more Majors straight in the newly designed experience.
Reply #4 Top
3) Which is exactly why i mentioned the human factor vs what is in the many AI algorithms. External modding won't modified these pre-compiled decisions by AIs... thus, the presumed but realistic obstacle to any Trading restrictions between race X & Y, plus many other variations thereof.

What happens behind the curtains (Ais trading with each other) is somewhat of a VERY interesting gameplay element, in fact.
Another reason why i always keep Planetary_Improvements & Xeno_Entertainment from the distribution but - invisible to me - skills of AI(s) for awhile or until emergency situations call for quick BCs input; EtCetera with the rest of technos downward the whole tree-S. :)

I kinda like the challenge involved when the researching-playfield is somewhat leveled or alllllllmmmmmmost equal.
Reply #5 Top
For #3, here's a thought (once you're ready to wade into the code):

Step 1: Give the tech to all races
Step 2: For all other races, make it require ImpossibleTech - so it doesn't show up on their TechTree
Step 3: For all other races, make it untradeable & unstealable.

Now they can't research it themselves, and if you give it to them they can't trade it to anybody else.
Reply #6 Top
Tadaamm! But, there's an indirect flaw (somehow) to this solution. The AIs must refer to a certain value for any of these ImpossibleTechs - which would, as a result, be created as a generally impressive (or not) target for either trading or stealing 'patterns'.
May seem a bit odd to the human player or even to both of us (if you consider the *willingnesstotrade* clause if and when applied!), but to an AI trying to parse what MUST be given a priority, i believe there has to be a conditional loop check in the algorithm to handle Impossibles in a particular manner; possibly, lowest priority in fact.

Thus, the boomerang effect to many trading circumstances.

Quite hard to explain without an attempt at some bad analogy;

- Race B really wants Superior Espionage from the Krynn.
- Krynn denies many times over.
- Drengin invades a Krynn planet, gets lucky and grabs it away from the Krynn.
- Race B contacts Drengin later on.
- Gets it from them.

All impervious to any algorithm checks performed on the exclusive TRADING status of a tech even if made Impossible at setup time.

Well, i don't have the source code. So i can only extrapolate based on many different hypothesis - one of which, unaltered conditions provided by default race trees.
Modify this simple situation, and you're certainly in for weird or unpredictable results including some complex AI 'reasonings'.
;)
Reply #7 Top
Edit: Nevermind I understand.

I'm gonna go ahead and give this a shot. I'll let you know how it goes.
Reply #8 Top
Zyxpsilon: What I propose definitely would need an AI setting to value the tech if you offer to trade it to them.

But your scenario wouldn't happen. Regardless of how the Drengin got the tech from the Krynn - spy theft, invasion theft, purchase, trade - there is no way for Race B to get it from them. "untradeable" prevents purchase/trade, and "unstealable" prevents theft.

Normally, Superior Espionage isn't in the Drengin tech tree, so if they get it from the Krynn it has default values - including the ability to be traded and stolen. By placing it into the Drengin tree ahead of time, you're able to override the default values with your own choice.
Reply #10 Top
For #3, here's a thought (once you're ready to wade into the code):Step 1: Give the tech to all racesStep 2: For all other races, make it require ImpossibleTech - so it doesn't show up on their TechTreeStep 3: For all other races, make it untradeable & unstealable.Now they can't research it themselves, and if you give it to them they can't trade it to anybody else.
End of quote


So, I finally got around to testing this. Unfortunately, it didn't work. Once you trade for a tech, you're able to trade it to others, even if it is set to untradeable for your own race.