Possible Server weakness in Ironclad's Server

from Sins Forums

You know in the technical section of this thread I put up this response.  However no one wants to listen because as a "noob" , I kind of worn out my welcome sort of speaking. 

As stated, I love the game very much. I'm not here to start any problems and I'm not here to start a flame war. However, this problem if I'm not wrong has to be addressed to the Stardock and Ironclad officials here.  In my opinion it is very sad that the Stardock and Ironclad officials avoid this subject or if anyone brings up the subject they close the thread down.  It has to do with all the diffuculty of being able to host, not being able to host, joining a game and not being able to join a game.

Also I ask myself everytime that what I'm going to say is true, why Stardock and Ironclad are so cheap when this game is so well made and so fun.  I believe that is this so-called being your own server in Ironclad Online is true then the multiplayer community is not going to last very long.

Well, here is my concern written out below.

 

 To Ironclad and Stardock officials

By no means I'm not trying to start a flame war. Also by no means I'm trying to cut people down such as the_Monk and Hollow man for donating their valuable time in helping others enjoy what I consider a phenomenal game. I'm only criticizing them for berating players and having smart remarks when a person comes to the forum with technical problems. I'm just voicing my concerns that such a fun game like Sins of A Solar Empire, have so many diffuculties in hosting a game, joining a game, compatabilty issues, lag issues, registration issues and the like.

I go to Ironclad online and there are a lot of frustrated people online. Heck at one point I was frustrated and came to the forums here for help. I got the help that I needed and I'm satisfied with it. Now, when I go to Ironclad online, half the people can't host a game and then another half of people can't join a game. So now you got a bunch of people begging other people to host a game and others want to join a game. This leads basically to no competitive games being played. That gets very frustrating. How can Ironclad Online host a bustling online multiplayer gaming community when some people can't host, some people can't register and some people can't join? Of course you going to get frustration. And enough frustration can cause that new fan not to come back and take his chances on other RTS games.

When I went to Ironclad online, I asked some of the people why they can't host, or they can't join. I hear things about ports, anitspyware programs, anitvirus programs and the like. I also hear rumors that Ironclad online is not a legitimate server because the host, if he can host, acts as his/her own server when he/she hosts a game.

Now I'm not a computer expert by any means. Additonally, I'm not as computer saavy as some of you are. However, given this rumor that the host, if he can host is his own server on Ironclad Online is true, then is it true the Ironclad Online is not a legitimate multiplayer server to run Sins of A Solar Empire? Is this the reason besides port problems, and computer security problems of why people can't host or join a game?

Now given what I hear that the host acts as its own server on Ironclad Online to play a multiplayer game is true, than what is the deal with Ironclad games not having a legitimate server? So you are telling me that with all the high and positive critical acclaim of this gam, you guys at Ironclad Games can't afford a legitimate server to make it easier for the gamer to host or join a multiplayer game on Ironclad Online to play Sins of a Solar Empire? That is downright crazy and cheap of you guys.

As stated earlier, I'm not a computer expert. However, if you guys at Stardock and Ironclad Games can't get a legitimate server, like the makers of other RTS games that have legitimate servers that are easy to host and to join, then why waste time having a multiplayer server at all? You guys at Ironclad games can't take a small portion of your profits and allocate it to a legitimate server which eliminates or at least reduce the difficulties of hosting and joing a game? Wow that is very dissappointing.

In all, it is very sad that I come to Ironclad Online, and having people who play as many as 50 or more games begging a noob such as me to host a game. You guys at Ironclad Games and Stardock Publishers need to remedy this problem. If you guys can't remedy this hosting problem, and this rumor that the host is his/her own server, because Ironclad Online is not a legitimate server is true, then the multiplayer community will never grow beyond the 250 maximum people that I hear are on at one time.

Basically if it is true that the host has to act as a server than fix this problem so the host dosen't have to act as his own server, which in turn can solve a lot of difficulties that Ironclad Online has.

6,598 views 5 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

@ Viewpoint

1. You did not only cut me down, but rather called me a bunch of "choice" names as evidenced in WWW Link that thread. I noticed how you never apologized for the mindless drivel aimed at me in that thread.


2. SINS is P2P, not client-server and it will never be client-server. In fact, the HOST in sins is only a "host" in name. Each and every person runs the ENTIRE simulation on their own PC, the "host" only SYNCS all of them together. As such the person with the slowest internet connection/slowest CPU, etc. will in fact slow everyone down.

3. Because SINS is purely P2P the instructions in my guide are necessary (at the moment). As has been pointed out numerous times now on these forums and ICO, patch 1.1 will introduce a NAT-T type connection method that should be able to "tunnel" past routers/firewalls thus eliminating the further need for my instructions.


4. ALL of the information I've just now RE-POSTED is available in various stickies/threads on these forums. Hopefully this is the last time someone will have to re-post same.

thanks,

the Monk
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Generally, it helps to understand things first :P

- There is no hosting problem. Anyone who has the proper ports forwarded and their routers set up properly can host. No exceptions. There are people who genuinely can't do this, due to the router settings being out of their hands (such as in university dorms). The upcoming 1.1 patch will remedy this with an optional net code that tunnels past router settings (sacrificing security for usability). Everyone else who's complaining about being unable to host hasn't bothered to get it right, and the fault is theirs.

- There is no actual "server". ICO is just a matchmaking lobby. The host is not a server either. Sins MP is P2P. All the host does is synchronize the data between all the clients.

- Because of the above, an external "server" cannot exist. You basically need a running Sins client for each game. If you'd like to give Ironclad enough money to build a server farm and change the engine so that a 3rd party PC can act as host to sync the data, I'm sure they won't mind.

- What's a "legitimate server" supposed to be, anyway? Are you afraid the the host can cheat? If so, no, because ICO checks to make sure everyone joining the game has the same data. Again, since the host machine only syncs the data, the "host" is in no different position than any other player.

If you don't understand what you're complaining about, do you actually expect any of it to be valid?

EDIT: Go Monk, go! :P
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
I can't get through it. What is he talking about? Who is ignoring what? THey are working on new net code for 1.1 to get around people not forwarding their ports properly! I'm hopign this will fix some things related to desyncs and lag as well.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
I can't get through it. What is he talking about?
End of quote


Thread summary; here's imagined complaints because I don't understand how the system works.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

1.1 will likely solve most of these issues. In the meantime,  we can only point you to the standard P2P solutions that the_Monk has provided you several times.